God does not follow the first principle of morality. Why not?

[Drich]

So god is malevolent, you just think this is unimportant.

If God does not make you a promise to care for you or love you then why should it matter to me or any other believer if you or anyone in your position feels he can label God Malevolent?

That's like saying money is unfair if you don't have any. Money is not the issue, nor is your proxcimity to it an issue for me. If you want more money work for it. If you want to know God's loving side then work on it.

So god does not interact with the world in any way?

absolutly He does. He however is not obligated to act in such a way to win your personal approval despite your spiritual orentation.

Should be a deist, then. If he does interfere, then we aren't totally in charge of this realm and he doen't have an excuse. Also, define 'allow'. Do we 'allow' cancer to kill children,

Do 'we' make cancer treatment avaiable to ALL Children who have it for free?
(it's a yes or no question)

or natural disasters and other diseases to kill people?

God gave this world over to us, because we insisted on taking the reigns in the garden. This does not mean we know what we were doing.

Isn't god responsible for diesease (if he created all life on earth)?

So?

If so, his non-interference is only via a loophole.

Your confused. I did not say God did not 'interfere.' The flood, sodom and gormorrah the book of Job and on and on. I simply said we have been placed as the masters of this realm. Meaning we are responsiable for this world and all that is in it. This does not mean God is walked away.

Good thing too; it's illegal to stone people for working on the sabbath.

Which day is the sabbath in Christianity again?

Actually, you are right in saying that god isn't omnibenevolent. A lot of people have that idea, but it isn't mentioned in the bible. People sometimes believe things that aren't in the bible, but it is more common that they don't believe something that is in the bible. Do you think that blaspheming the holy spirit will really earn you a one-way ticket to eternal torture, even if the rest of your life is spent in servitude?

yup.

The question is what is blasphemeing the Holy Spirit?
I mean most of you think taking the Lords name is pairing the title of God with an obsenity, hence blasphemeing the Holy Spirit would be the same thing. One of you even started a thread on this. What if i told you that wasn't it.

[Darkstar]

If God does not make you a promise to care for you or love you then why should it matter to me or any other believer if you or anyone in your position feels he can label God Malevolent?

Then why do you maintain that god cares about us or loves us? (Or don't you?)

That's like saying money is unfair if you don't have any. Money is not the issue, nor is your proxcimity to it an issue for me. If you want more money work for it. If you want to know God's loving side then work on it.

Kind of sounds like Stockholm syndrome. God makes us, then threatens us with horrible vengence unless we are absolutely subserviant. Escaping hell to continue in our worship for eternity is a 'reward'.

Should be a deist, then. If he does interfere, then we aren't totally in charge of this realm and he doen't have an excuse. Also, define 'allow'. Do we 'allow' cancer to kill children,

Do 'we' make cancer treatment avaiable to ALL Children who have it for free?
(it's a yes or no question)

Does cancer treatment have a 100% sucess rate? Whose poor design made us susceptible to cancer?

or natural disasters and other diseases to kill people?

God gave this world over to us, because we insisted on taking the reigns in the garden. This does not mean we know what we were doing.

God gave us the world, but we insited on using it. ...huh?

Isn't god responsible for diesease (if he created all life on earth)?

So?

Disease serves no positive function. If promoting single-celled organisms at the expense of his chosen creation isn't an act of malice, what is?

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If so, his non-interference is only via a loophole.

Your confused. I did not say God did not 'interfere.' The flood, sodom and gormorrah the book of Job and on and on. I simply said we have been placed as the masters of this realm. Meaning we are responsiable for this world and all that is in it. This does not mean God is walked away.

---

We are responsible for the world...and for fixing anything god breaks in it.

Good thing too; it's illegal to stone people for working on the sabbath.

Which day is the sabbath in Christianity again?

http://atheistforums.org/thread-14787-po...#pid348298

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Actually, you are right in saying that god isn't omnibenevolent. A lot of people have that idea, but it isn't mentioned in the bible. People sometimes believe things that aren't in the bible, but it is more common that they don't believe something that is in the bible. Do you think that blaspheming the holy spirit will really earn you a one-way ticket to eternal torture, even if the rest of your life is spent in servitude?

yup.

---

Well, no one ever said life (or god) was fair.

[hide]

The question is what is blasphemeing the Holy Spirit?
I mean most of you think taking the Lords name is pairing the title of God with an obsenity, hence blasphemeing the Holy Spirit would be the same thing. One of you even started a thread on this. What if i told you that wasn't it.

[/quote]

Do you have evidence to suggest it isn't? Claiming that Jesus's miracles were the work of demons is apparently blasphemy against the holy spirit, but one would think it is the intent that matters.

[Drich]

How were they justified in the past?

There is a really technically complicated explaination for this one. do you have your bible and a pen/paper ready?

Here goes. They were justified because God told them to do it!
In other words God said it was ok.

And what if these commands have been personal, as so many claim?

Then I'd ask for book Chappter and verse that tells us to expect and accept when one of us gets the personal authoiry to go on a rampage in the name of God.

how do you answer to the hundreds that claim they killed for God?

In Christianity to a 'christian' who claimed this I would ask for book chapter and verse.

You brought omnibenevolence into this debate. It is not omnibenevolence, but simply benevolence.

The do you best here. Show me where God promises benevolence to those who do not know or want to know Him.

Do you realize your problem here? If you are right and he is not benevolent (you aren't) then he is simply a total asshole.

Again, if you are poor because you do not want to work, then who care if you think having money (because you do not) is unfair.

You are Spiritually bankrupt because you do not A/S/K. Do not fool yourself into believing anything else.

Then he's malevolent, and does not care about the suffering of mankind.

So what? He does not promise anything else.

And why did man fall, anyways? Because God isn't a good enough designer?

Choice.

Seriously? How can you say you hate God if you truly know nothing of Him?

African child dying of AIDS. Probably never heard of Jesus. If you seriously didn't understand what I said.....well, we won't go there.

This boy and millions like him die of your inaction, Your contentment to simply blame a God you claim you do not believe exists, Your in ablity to reach past your comfort zone. This isn't God. This is the result of your actions and people like you. Grow up and take responsiablity for your own self, stop blaming someone who you pretend that doesn't exist anyway.

No. I'm just saying that the biggest religious power in the world right now thinks differently than you.

and appearently thinks differently than God does.. Otherwise don't you think He would have mentioned 1/2 the doctrines and dogmas that are taught be this supposed 'supper power' in the one and only book He had written? If a doctrine is not found in the bible then that 'doctrine' is not a revelation of the God of the bible. I serve the God of the bible and I repersent this God. If you want to argue the god of the vatican and his policies then find someone else to talk to.

1 John 4:8 "He that loveth not knoweth not God; for God is love."

Let me help you make my point a little clear for me by using this passage in it's proper context.. and let me put it into a variation of the english language used in this century:

7 Beloved, let us love one another, for love is of God; and everyone who loves is born of God and knows God. 8 He who does not love does not know God, for God is love. 9 In this the love of God was manifested toward us, that God has sent His only begotten Son into the world, that we might live through Him. 10 In this is love, not that we loved God, but that He loved us and sent His Son to be the propitiation for our sins. 11 Beloved, if God so loved us, we also ought to love one another.

Hmmm, who is "Us?" Is it all of us? No because in your verse (verse 8) there is a seperation of those who love and those who do not. So the word "Us" here does not mean all of us. Which means thier are some who are not privy to the love being offered here. Paul tells "us" that not all are called. and of those who are called, not all will heed this call. So the point being God love is boundless. It's just not all will experience this boundless love.

[System of Solace]

God is just a sadistic creator. A true, loving, god of peace would have created humans impervious to sin. He seems very annoyed by human sin; the fact that hell even exists in the bible shows he is either imperfect or that he is sadistic.

[Drich]

We are subject to the state. If the state says no rape torture genocide then we must follow those rules.

That is not an answer to the question I asked you.

Actually it is. Do you want to think about it or do you need me to explain it?

[Tea Earl Grey Hot]

Never heard of the "first principle of morality" before. Interesting.

On a related note, God certainly hasn't been consistent in following the golden rule "do unto others etc."

[Darkstar]

So, in short:
1. "God told me to do it." [The nazis couldn't pull off a similar excuse, but god gets a pass (again).]
2. Anything bad that happens on earth is our fault. That kid died because you haven't cured AIDS. [Almost as if there were no god...]
3. If you haven't found god, you haven't looked hard enough [or maybe he's just less credulous?]

That's basically the whole argument.

[System of Solace]

Here goes. They were justified because God told them to do it!
In other words God said it was ok.

I'll make sure to note that god is a douchebag.

Then I'd ask for book Chappter and verse that tells us to expect and accept when one of us gets the personal authoiry to go on a rampage in the name of God.

We've established God is omnipotent and that he can do what he wishes. He has appeared in visions to people in the bible, why can he not do so today?

In Christianity to a 'christian' who claimed this I would ask for book chapter and verse.

They killed nonbelievers, they killed somebody they thought was a witch, they killed a fortuneteller, they killed a muslim, a jew, a homosexual, a false prophet."

The do you best here. Show me where God promises benevolence to those who do not know or want to know Him.

The fuck? Where did that come from?
If god curses a child to hell and they don't know who he is, and you accept that, I have no further reason to speak with you.

Again, if you are poor because you do not want to work, then who care if you think having money (because you do not) is unfair.

You are Spiritually bankrupt because you do not A/S/K. Do not fool yourself into believing anything else.

What the fuck do you know about me?

So what? He does not promise anything else.

So you admit he is an asshole. Why does he not promise anything else?

Choice.

A-s-s-h-o-l-e

This boy and millions like him die of your inaction, Your contentment to simply blame a God you claim you do not believe exists, Your in ablity to reach past your comfort zone. This isn't God. This is the result of your actions and people like you. Grow up and take responsiablity for your own self, stop blaming someone who you pretend that doesn't exist anyway.

No, this boy dies because, in your logic, your God is a murderous sadistic shithead. Saying that it is the result of people that GOD FUCKING DESIGNED is completely and utterly stupid. God is omnipotent and has the choice to change our actions. You, sir, are a complete and utter immoral moron.

I'm not discussing this anymore. You should be ashamed for even saying such a thing.

[Drich]

[quote='Darkstar' pid='348359' dateline='1350013149']
[quote]Kind of sounds like Stockholm syndrome. God makes us, then threatens us with horrible vengence unless we are absolutely subserviant. Escaping hell to continue in our worship for eternity is a 'reward'.[/quote]what century are you from? where is you ablity to reason here? If God made all of creation and you spend this life trying to deny God and live for yourself. where in all of God's creation will you hide from God to do this, when His glory and magesty has been revealed to you? Hell or the absence of creation is the only place you can go to seperate yourself from God.

[quote]Does cancer treatment have a 100% sucess rate? Whose poor design made us susceptible to cancer?[/quote]who uses chemicals in everyday life that promote cancer? (BTW I asked a yes or no question)

[quote]Disease serves no positive function.[/quote]look at the dark ages, and even the cival war. It thins the heard it forces us to clean and wash our monkey butts so we do not live in filth. So we bury or burn our dead so we care for our water and food. It only serves no purpose if you think we would do any of these things with the threat of sickness or death.

[quote] If promoting single-celled organisms at the expense of his chosen creation isn't an act of malice, what is?[/quote]wow what a narrow view of the world you live in. You only look to what is infront of you. take a step back and look the all of the other things we as a people have gained from our exposure to 'single celled organisms.'

[quote]Do you have evidence to suggest it isn't? Claiming that Jesus's miracles were the work of demons is apparently blasphemy against the holy spirit, but one would think it is the intent that matters.[/quote]
If Blaspheme of the Holy Spirit was saying "Spirit damn it" then where is the thou shalt not? If there were a phrase then wouldn't Chrsit at least warn us not to say this given phrase?

[System of Solace]

look at the dark ages, and even the cival war. It thins the heard it forces us to clean and wash our monkey butts so we do not live in filth. So we bury or burn our dead so we care for our water and food. It only serves no purpose if you think we would do any of these things with the threat of sickness or death.

It's funny because people thought stuff like the black plague were curses by god. Naturally, religion slows scientific advance. Again. Instead of trying to put in place proper sanitary measures, they looked to the church. Which helped in doing absolutely nothing useful.