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RE: Is being a gnostic atheist illogical?
October 6, 2012 at 5:29 pm
ah, I thought it was a recognized term, just new to me.
We should avoid propagating this term I think as it is very confusing re the Gnostics in the normal sense ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gnosticism). Gnostics are quite interesting to anyone interested in undermining much Christian doctrine (or Dan Brown, lol). I'm too lazy to read much on it though.
blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed.” – John 20:26-29
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RE: Is being a gnostic atheist illogical?
October 7, 2012 at 11:01 am
(This post was last modified: October 7, 2012 at 11:02 am by Norfolk And Chance.)
(October 6, 2012 at 9:02 am)Tiberius Wrote: Depends how you define "knowledge". I define it in an absolute sense, since otherwise there is no difference between knowledge and belief. Under this definition, gnostic atheism is as illogical as gnostic theism.
Knowing something and believing you know something are different things. Everyone believes they know something. No fallible being can ever know they know something (that is my belief).
I know there is no god in the same way that I know there is no tooth fairy.
Both fictional characters out of books that have no evidence of existing in reality.
You are currently experiencing a lucky and very brief window of awareness, sandwiched in between two periods of timeless and utter nothingness. So why not make the most of it, and stop wasting your life away trying to convince other people that there is something else? The reality is obvious.
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RE: Is being a gnostic atheist illogical?
October 7, 2012 at 11:36 am
(October 7, 2012 at 11:01 am)Norfolk And Chance Wrote: I know there is no god in the same way that I know there is no tooth fairy.
Both fictional characters out of books that have no evidence of existing in reality.
Of course the tooth fairy, if indeed it is the character in any book, was made up on purpose as a fictional character and is understood by all as such except by small children who we deliberately mislead.
God is a character in the bible but no one claims to have made him up on purpose as a fictional character. (That doesn't mean no one did, just that if they did they aren't letting on.)
I agree about the lack of evidence but it is possible for a believer to reasonably claim that this god is present in everything but not directly knowable except (perhaps) if she chooses to reveal herself to someone. It doesn't seem any more likely to me than it does to you, but the lack of evidence isn't going to seem like a gotcha moment to a theist who believes in a god who is only knowable where she wishes to be known.
So the tooth fairy and the bible's god are both fanciful, fictional characters from our point of view but they don't really seem so similar .. says the 6th degree atheist to the 7th degree one. 
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RE: Is being a gnostic atheist illogical?
October 7, 2012 at 12:28 pm
(October 5, 2012 at 8:35 pm)Polaris Wrote: What I am much more confused by is agnostic theism especially when they're all into Church and stuff like that....I've met one before, but he was only doing that to see if he was a Believer and was making it as an identify as others do. His actions made sense while theirs do not.
I don't think I've ever met an agnostic theist before.
Woulda made a really interesting thread if I hadn't got banned from Worthy Christian Forums. 
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RE: Is being a gnostic atheist illogical?
October 7, 2012 at 12:50 pm
(October 7, 2012 at 12:28 pm)Hughsie Wrote: I don't think I've ever met an agnostic theist before. I think I've met a lot, people who are born into Christian traditions but have no interest in it, and use agnosticism as a politer version of apatheism. I'd like to think that they are atheists, or would be if they thought about it enough but somehow they often seem to hedge their bets with religion if pushed (at least publicly). This will change I think as atheism over-comes its demonisation and popular misconceptions. I really wish these people would think about it more and dare put atheism on the census'.
Anyway, I voted the wrong way, I should have voted "yes" but I was misunderstanding the terms of reference. My bad.
blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed.” – John 20:26-29
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RE: Is being a gnostic atheist illogical?
October 7, 2012 at 3:49 pm
(October 7, 2012 at 12:28 pm)Hughsie Wrote: (October 5, 2012 at 8:35 pm)Polaris Wrote: What I am much more confused by is agnostic theism especially when they're all into Church and stuff like that....I've met one before, but he was only doing that to see if he was a Believer and was making it as an identify as others do. His actions made sense while theirs do not.
I don't think I've ever met an agnostic theist before.
Woulda made a really interesting thread if I hadn't got banned from Worthy Christian Forums.
I've met a couple of self professed agnostic theists on line that I found credible. I don't find the idea difficult at all. It would be the best kind of theist to be. No self-deluding nonsense. Just, "I recognize there is no evidence for or against God (or gods)" along with "but I like relating to this world in the company of the God I was taught to think was there, so I'm going to go with that hunch."
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RE: Is being a gnostic atheist illogical?
October 7, 2012 at 4:42 pm
To claim 100% certainty is always illogical.
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RE: Is being a gnostic atheist illogical?
October 7, 2012 at 5:51 pm
I am 100% certain that as I walk across the room and drop my coffee, it will hit the floor.
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RE: Is being a gnostic atheist illogical?
October 7, 2012 at 10:21 pm
Even if under some epistemic considerations certainty forever eludes us it would still be advantageous to completely commit to our operating hypotheses and best guesses on a moment by moment basis.
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RE: Is being a gnostic atheist illogical?
October 7, 2012 at 11:17 pm
(This post was last modified: October 7, 2012 at 11:19 pm by The Grand Nudger.)
We can never be certain about being uncertain.....
Anyone up for a rabbit hunt?
My coffee hits the floor too Iatia. Pity, ain't it? Some folks coffee might levitate, or =set itself up in orbit around the moon. Can't be sure after all.
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