Ask, Seek, Knock

[ronedee]

Why 'without seeing him'? Who would worship something that didn't exist? Here's an idea: You go and pray to every god that has ever been created. Make a list, and spend one day praying only to one god, and then the next day move to the next god. When you are done, see which day was the best and which god you prayed to and viola! You've just found the One True Faith™! Just have a little faith, what's the worst that could happen?

WoW! What a great, well articulated idea!

And me thinking that you didn't have an original thought?

You should be elected head Atheist here! I can't wait to implement your plan!

[Darkstar]

WoW! What a great, well articulated idea!

And me thinking that you didn't have an original thought?

You should be elected head Atheist here! I can't wait to implement your plan!

If my rebuttals are unoriginal, it's because the arguments I am rebutting are unoriginal.

[Minimalist]

You should be elected head Atheist here!

We don't need a pope like you fucking sheep.

[ronedee]

If my rebuttals are unoriginal, it's because the arguments I am rebutting are unoriginal.

ooooh REALLY?

Other than the Gravity theory....

I'd like your signature "cut & pastes" from past posts to corroborate your statement about how unoriginal I am!

[Drich]

What I am saying is God always answers His children in the positive when they A/S/K.

Absolute horse shit.

There was a point in my life where, having been scared away from questioning the God I'd been brought up to accept as real, I was guided by a Christian friend (who was entirely sincere and remains my friend) to seek God anew, as I saw that he was happy and fulfilled in his life and I wanted that for myself.

So you sought God as a way to obtain the happiness you thought your friend had?

I've battled serious problems with depression and a negative self-image my entire life, so the idea that the greatest being in the universe might love and accept me in spite of all that was of enormous appeal to me in my early 20s.

How did you expect God to love you? What is your understanding of the Love God offers? What is your end, what do you get? what do you offer in return?

I tried attending various churches. I studied scripture and tried to understand it (my Christian upbringing had been of the lazy variety). I sought fellowship. And I was as sincere about the whole thing as I could have been.

With this I have no doubt. My question is did you do it God's way or did you go to church looking for full fillment , contentment, the happiness your friend had, and or your personal self esteem?

In Luke 11 we are told to Ask, Seek, and knock for the Holy Spirit to come and live in us. Is this what you did? (If you say yes I am going to ask you for specifics.)

In the end, I got nothing from it. I was never any happier than I was before, and in spite of the message of salvation and love from my co-religionists and contemporaries, the book by which I was supposed to draw inspiration I found to be full of the same exact sort of negative reinforcement which made me a self-hating and depressed wreck in the first place.

Were you honestly trying to use the bible as a way to bolster yoourself? to strengthen your esteem and your personal pride and out look? Why? We do not draw personal pride and strength from God nor are we to set ourselves on high. We are to Humble ourselves before God. (Which it soulds like you were on the right track) But, then we are not to pull up just before we hit bottom and then be mad at God because He almost let us hit bottom. No. We are to hit bottom hard and remain there till He see fit to raise us up. God must break some of us very deeply and harshly, because we have allowed our hearts to become so callous to Him and all that He is. If God has you slated for the bottom then know it may be counter to the way you want to live your life, but in the end (if you give yourself to God) you will know the peace, contentment and full fillment offered in the Spiritual fruit God offers all who accept the holy Spirit. Something you will struggle with the rest of your life otherwise.

I am unworthy. I am a bad person. I live in sin. I can never measure up to my Heavenly father's greatness just as I could never live up to my earthly father's expectations. The more I read, the less I liked what I read.

too bad you did not finish what you started to read... Too bad you did not get to read the book of romans.. Or too bad you did not read anything up to the book of romans either. How can I say this? Because nothing you said is repersented in the Gospels, or the book of Acts nor any where else besides the book of Revelations. What you have described is a view of christianity that is not consistent with biblical Christianity.

That's what I got when I ASKed. I got a Sky Daddy who held me in perhaps worse contempt than my actual father did, with the added insult that my actual father apologized to me in my adulthood without demanding anything further from me.

So you did not Seek or Knock? Maybe you should try the other two with an open heart.

A significant (though probably not the largest) part of what has transformed me from a sincere, if failed, Christian in my early 20s all the way into the vitriolic antitheist I am at 30 is a matter of understanding (in retrospect) out how much of a waste it was to try ASKing for love from a deity whose entire history is one of blood-soaked hatred and sadism. I feel as if I was badly suckered by the modern PR campaign which paints this monster as the goodest of good guys. The God of Scripture is not a god of love, but a god of divisiveness, hatred and monumental pain for humanity as a whole and crushing destruction of self-esteem for the individual.

Again what do you nderstand love to be? What if your understanding of Love is actually a type of self worship? Is God supposed to allow you and re-enforce the self worship that brought lucifer and 1/3 of the angels down? Or is true love for a son doing the tought thing and allowing him to suffer to the point he lets go this form of self love, and then embrace him with all the love he never knew could exist?

God has NEVER loved any of us the way we demand to be loved. God offers some thing better. Something we have litterally been made for. But, inorder to receive it we must first learn to love and trust Him. We have been told we can only do this through the Holy Spirit's Guideance. We can only obtain this guideance if we first have a measure of the Holy Spirit with in us. We can only have that if we A/S/K as instructed in Luke 11. Do you earnestly want to know how to A/S/K? Do you want to know what that prayer answered looks like? To you want to know how to obtain more?

If I did not meet this supposed standard of sincerity, it is sure as hell not for want of my trying.

Again sincerity, I do not believe was in issue. It was the motive for personal gain that doomed your efforts.
(Do not take offense i am just making an honest observation)

But, in you whole post you did not once mention a relationship with God as being a Goal in why/what you were doing. You listed all of the benfits or all of the things you were expecting to get from God.. As if you were trading worship for religious favors or personal perks. where is the bible, where in all of the 'seeking' you supposedly did was any of this written or promised to you? To any of us? Christ died for one reason only. So you could have an eternal relationship with God, not so you could post a profile and pick on christian mingle dot com or date some girl at church (I learned that the hard way myself a time or two.) Sure those things do come for some of us, but as a after thought for the primary reason we are there.

If you took 1/3 of the effort you put into what took place between you and your church while in your 20's, and earnestly applied that 1/3 effort into Asking, Seeking, and Knocking as outlined in Luke 11 God will show up in your life. To this I have no doubt. When He shows up and how long He stays will totally be up to you/your heart. But make no mistake He will show up. Do you want to know what to look for and how to prepare yourself for His arrival?

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[quote='Drich' pid='348617' dateline='1350062717']
Read the story in Luke 11. The door he knocks on is a neighbor. He has a dialog with Him. He knocks because he knows there is someone home.

It was with Adam in the Garden.

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[ronedee]

You should be elected head Atheist here!

We don't need a pope like you fucking sheep.

Speaking of f-king sheep....your avatar looks a little like a shepherd with his staff and all!

[Drich]

Care to demonstrate that your particular god has more evidence going for him?

Take this querry to Him, just a/s/k.

People rarely choose their religion; you get what you are born with.

This is untrue. There are droves of people born into Christianity why fall away into self worship. I was born into selfworship and Choose Christianity in my 20's.

If you do convert, it is rarer still that it has anything to do with evidence; you just like their ideas better, as though you can choose what afterlife you get by believing hard enough in your chosen religion.

My, 'conversion' was completely based on the evidence God provided to me.

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[quote='Cinjin' pid='348754' dateline='1350085757']
Not true. Thousands upon hundreds of thousands of christians (even clergy) have left the faith because your god does not answer jack shit.

a/s/k is not an open invitation to wish for what you want. A/S/K is a promise by god to give a portion of the Holy Spirit to those who seek it. If the 'clergy' do not know this then they are the 'clergy' of another god.

Ask a muslim or a Hindu if they know god.

Appearently you do not understand either of those faiths. For their gods are unknowable. Their gods do not offer a relationship with any of them. Their God is not offering a literal peice of Himself to instruct and guide them to a full fillment in understanding of Him.

The great majority of the time, they will say yes.

Then they are fools and simply do not know their faiths (or you don't and are just lying to me at this point) or have splintered off of the primary 'dogmas' of thier core faiths.

"Finding proof" of the Holy Spirit means nothing as it is purely subjective and based in the perceptions of ones own mind. In other words ... morons, idiots, gullible fools.

Isn't ironic, don't you think? a little too Ironic...

[Tino]

This is where you become an ath-tard. What makes You think God is your Father? Creator yes, but as a non believer you are not His son (yet.) It is the start of the process of A/S/K that will eventually have you grafted into the family. Right now you are a tare, a weed, chaff, a goat, in short undesireable. It is the undesireable that will be seperated from those slated to be with God. So don't worry neither God nor bible believeing Christians look at you as a brother/son. That said know the potential is definatly there. It simply depends on your willingness to A/S/K.

Wow. It's religion without the "god loves you" part. Drich, what denomination/church do you represent?

[KichigaiNeko]

They are not very good with the xtian "love" are they...much better with the self-righteous bigotry though?

[Cinjin]

Not true. Thousands upon hundreds of thousands of christians, even clergy, have left the faith because your god does not answer jack shit.

a/s/k is not an open invitation to wish for what you want. A/S/K is a promise by god to give a portion of the Holy Spirit to those who seek it. If the 'clergy' do not know this then they are the 'clergy' of another god.

...the classic True Christian™ argument used to dismiss thousand upon thousands of legitimate arguments. Greasy sophistry from a liar.
I never said a/s/k was an invitation to ask for what I want ... don't put words in my mouth you filthy apologist. I'm telling you that on ANY level, whether it be completely unselfish and noble ... your angry god ISN'T there.

Ask a muslim or a Hindu if they know god.

Appearently you do not understand either of those faiths. For their gods are unknowable. Their gods do not offer a relationship with any of them. Their God is not offering a literal peice of Himself to instruct and guide them to a full fillment in understanding of Him.

Seriously, pull your head out of your ass. What dipshit pulpit-thumper told you that bit of bull shit??
A simple google search will tell you that it is YOU who apparently does not know what he is talking about. Their god(s) are just as full of shit as yours but they have many practices and teachings that will allow them to gain a more personal relationship with their chosen deity. Also, please look up the definition of the word, know, because you either don't know what it means or like every other stinking apologist, you conveniently changed the definition in the middle of our conversation.