Ask, Seek, Knock

[Anomalocaris]

Yes, it does. The fact that you have made bullshit your standard for evidence because you sought a to justify christianity does not mean bullshit thereby becomes an acceptable standard for evidence, for anything, including christianity, nor does that mean the outcome you sought to gain with your "standard of evidence" therefore gains any credibility.

Your opinion is noted. On the flip side, the fact that you have decreed my standards to be bullshit does not make them so.

My decree does not make them bullshit. The fact that are bullshit, and they would be treated in any serious academic endeavor aimed at finding facts with the utmost contempt reserved for stinking bullshit and outright fraud, makes them bullshit.

[John V]

So, again, if your standards of evidence allow you to accept Yahweh, then why don't you accept the Flying Spaghetti Monster? What makes him less valid? (Other than the fact that everone knows it is supposed to be a parody)

Start a thread on it.

[Anomalocaris]

It may be false, but it is true, huh? You got any better ones?

Well I gave the example of the problem of evil. The problem of evil basically is assuming "there is no possible explanation" of (a) "benevolent" purpose(s) behind suffering/evil in the world.

What is evil but a name you give to a collection of things which your lack the capacity to understand and appreciate, in lieu of the honest diligence required to actually build up your capacity for understanding and appreciation to encompass those things?

Does this simple intellectual laziness justify overarching revision of cosmology?

[Mystic]

So, again, if your standards of evidence allow you to accept Yahweh, then why don't you accept the Flying Spaghetti Monster? What makes him less valid? (Other than the fact that everone knows it is supposed to be a parody)

Start a thread on it.

I think you are not understanding what they are trying to say. You are stating you have a standard of evidence that leads you to accept Jesus Christ.

They are stating, for that standard evidence, not to be wrong, it cannot be the same in proving things like Quran being the Divine word of God, or a Flying Spagheti Monster existing.

Case in point, I use to read Nahjul Balagha, and thought I knew it must be showing a "higher" human mind then normal humans. Now I go back and read it, and I'm not that impressed.

The Quran also seemed to be of a higher nature, but now it seems like mostly repetitive (fallacies) arguments from emotion.

Feeling the bible is inspired, is one thing, knowing is another.

That said, belief in free-will and (objective) morality or value or praise, is all anecdotal. And most Atheists are not willing to let go of that, just because there is no argument to prove it.

There is no "evidence" for morality or free-will, it's a properly basic belief.

So this issue is really fuzzy.

My issue with "the holy spirit" is that Christians seem to be devoid of it by their own standards.

The bible states anyone whom loves this world or the things in this world is devoid of the love of God. Yet Christians where I'm living are very much in love with both the world and the things in the world. They are not ascetic.

Not only are they in love with it, but are willing to be unjust/oppressive towards other nations and people for the sake of increasing their worldly experience.

If Christians were all saints and more "good" then other people, and acted in a holy honorable fashion not seen in other people, I would say there is perhaps something at work here and this leads them to knowledge of their bible.

But this "holy spirit" guiding seems to contradict reality, where faith really occurs to same reason as other people of other faiths believe. And in this case, it's right to ask, what exactly in the standard of evidence, that makes you not believe in Quran or Bahaism or whatever, but you believe in Christianity.

[Drich]

[quote='Minimalist' pid='353039' dateline='1351015213']
[quote]all of these "points" just to mask the fact that you have an incomplete Written Roman Record (say that 5 times fast.) and that you are simly argueing from a position of faith...[/quote]

[quote]No, dummy. We are not ignoring it at all. You are trying to bake a cake on a monkey's ass [/quote] what does that even mean?

[quote]by suggesting that all of the documents which did talk about your godboy were destroyed. This is absurd because it was xtians who largely determined which documents were copied and also xtians who did the destruction of ancient literature because it did not support their fucking religion.[/quote]lol.. still laughing..

The great 'book burnings' were centuries after the fact. Rome simply did not keep/store records for the sake of posterity. It was a big deal to store written documents. They built scriptoriums for these documents. The majority of what was written was written on papyrus (A paper like material made from reeds.) This had a self life of maybe twenty years in normal care, they may have been able to double that if with in the scriptorium the document/scroll was placed in a micro enviorment like a seal jar. Great lengths had to be taken to make a document made from papyrus last any length of time. as Too much or too little mositure would destroy this material. Plus it was extremely fragile even when new. That is why all formal documents and declerations were recorded on parchement and vellum. (sheep of calf skin) Day to Day reports or even the records for large regional events (like the dead walking) would have still been recorded on papryus, for the simply reason of cost.

So (using my head for something other than a hat rack) If the vast majority of the written works of 1st century rome was destroyed due to the fact that they were recorded on material not meant to generally last more than a few decades, and if the majority day to day affairs of 1st century rome was recorded on this material. then it is logical to say that the majority of 1st century record of the day to day has been lost long before any of the book burnings began.

Now take these undisputable facts and hold it next to your claim that Rome did not record anything of Christ. With the vast majority of what 1st century Rome recorded being lost to the ages, it is not factualy correct to make this claim. You can claim this, but understand your claim is not supported by the facts. Which makes your claim a statement of Faith. Which is fine, but you do have to acknoweledge it as a statement of faith and not a fact based arguement.

[John V]

Start a thread on it.

I think you are not understanding what they are trying to say. You are stating you have a standard of evidence that leads you to accept Jesus Christ.

They are stating, for that standard evidence, not to be wrong, it cannot be the same in proving things like Quran being the Divine word of God, or a Flying Spagheti Monster existing.

I know what they're saying. I've debated it before on other boards. it's not particularly difficult (he gives my first point himself). I just think it's better done in it's own thread.

[Darkstar]

Thread created.

[Angrboda]

You know, I'm told that if you have excessive knocking, a change in the octane of your fuel can be an expedient fix.

[Drich]

You know, I'm told that if you have excessive knocking, a change in the octane of your fuel can be an expedient fix.

Actually no. Changing to a higher grade of octane only will mask a greater issue, (if any change occours at all.) Especially if you have been faithfully using the same octane in the same car for some time. For the knock you hear in that situation is a form of preignition, usally caused by a build up of of excess carbon with the combistion chamber. Simply uping the octane might only prolong the amount of time you can drive without hearing a knock or more accuratly a pinging sound, but eventually you will hear this ping again (as the carbon continues to build up.) when you do it will most likly be accompanied with dieseling if you have an older car. (That is when you shut the car of and it still chuggs and trys to run)
The solution here is to run the car through an injection cleaning process (which can be costly but will be your only solution if you just "up your octane" and wait for the problem to resurface.) Or on the on set of the pinging you hear, you start treating the fuel with a product like seafoam, or you can purchase fuel that has these chemicals already in them. I perfer the seafoam as it is a little more fast acting. You spend a little more up front but will save $$$ over the long run.

There are 3 other things that can give you a preignition ping/knock do you want to hear about them as well?