Ex Theists

[Oldandeasilyconfused]

But my bone is that how can you be 100% sure that there is no god?

I can't be and have never made such a claim. Neither do most atheists I know. Those atheists who make such a claim attract the same level of credibility from me as the theist who is 100% certain there IS a god. IE; NONE.


I assert only that I do not believe. I make no claims of truths or certainty,and offer no answers,only opinions. (that's called 'scepticism') I concede I may be wrong.Part of me hopes I am, but no part of me believes that to be case. That is NOT the same as certitude. I'm fairly confident that aliens will not land at the local mall today to say "Hi" and have a latte and a peoplecue, but I'm not certain; I may be wrong. .

[Kyuuketsuki]

But my bone is that how can you be 100% sure that there is no god?

No one is claiming certainty ... do you know with absolute certainty there isn't a n invisible, indetectable flying purple people eater standing behind you (he's not hungry right now)?

Even in science there are no absolutes and that, being a part of humanism apparently, is my philosophy ... nothing is held beyond doubt and there are no moral absolutes!

Kyu

[Pippy]

Then we are in agreement Padraic and Kyu. That is a rare day.

I am not certain there is a god, especially that everyone should see it my way. That would be fanatical. I also agree that the 100% belief in god or not-god is about the same thing.

Why? This isn't a democracy!

Is it a Kyuocracy? Or an Adriocracy? If I am really not wanted, I will leave. I don't feel like I have some "right" to be here. I am a guest.

Pippy - to quote verbatim what you said that I responded to earlier:

Thank you again EvF. I was still talking to Adrian. No, I'm joking. Your completely right, and I know you and I try to be very compatible with reality, so it's important to you to point that out.

Let me try again. I did not mean the statement "no one cares what I think" to come across as it did, as Adrian has shown it interpreted. Although I did make that sentence. It was unclear, and I have spent some time hereafter trying to make what I meant more clear. If it is a sentence that could get me banned, than I certainly think there has been a misunderstanding.

Oh yeah, that's still not a lie. A lie is a intentional deception or coercion. That is a misunderstanding, I did not intend to coerce or deceive or misrepresent the undeniable facts about something...

Hopefully we can get back to talking about ex theists. Everywhere I pop up it is a thread derailment.

Thanks guys,
Sorry for the mishap. I will try to be more clear in the future, something that is both important and difficult for me.
-Pip

[Kyuuketsuki]

Why? This isn't a democracy!

Is it a Kyuocracy? Or an Adriocracy?

Whilst I am reasonably confident I have some influence here no it is not a "kyucracy" but yes it is Adrian's forum and therefore his to do as he wishes ... I'm sure he'd try to the best to be fair but no it is not a democracy and there is no reason it should be

If I am really not wanted, I will leave. I don't feel like I have some "right" to be here. I am a guest.

Oh you poor, poor little theist, you don't feel at home in an atheist forum ... why should you? Or is this all to salve your poor little inferiority complex?

Kyu

[Pippy]

Holy shit Kyu.

Oh you poor, poor little theist, you don't feel at home in an atheist forum ... why should you? Or is this all to salve your poor little inferiority complex?

Calm down. I don't ask or expect to feel at home in an atheist forum, that is insane. I feel quite well respected, save for a couple people who delight in tearing me down for whatever reasons they have. I don't mean to be a poor, poor theist, and if you took my comment that way, you took it very wrong. Try not to bring up this supposed inferiority complex too much, because I don't have one. In fact, you might be having trouble looking at things straight through your superiority complex you hold over me.

I hope to be able to have grown-up conversations here, but you are not helping at all with posts like that. I may get in trouble for snapping back at you, but let it be remembered you hit first.

I am almost moved to stop talking to you again.

-Pip

[Darwinian]

To attempt to drag this thread back to one of it's original points.

Do people think that having been brought up as a theist gives them more knowledge and insight into arguing against the subject as someone like myself who has never been religious?

Hmmm?

[Pippy]

I suppose, if only that they know better what they are talking about... What they are disagreeing with...

[Tiberius]

I have explained it already, but for clarity let me repeat. I feel that threatening to ban me for one sentence that you misunderstood counts as nothing. So if I truly feel that you are threatening to ban me for nothing, to say so is not a lie at all. Just because we disagree, one of us is not necessarily lying. I think this whole conversation could be best described as petty.

I did not threaten to ban you for one sentence. This is a lie. I warned you that such sentences could be taken as you attempting to cause trouble, and that if you wanted to cause trouble, you would be banned.

In other words (since you don't seem to get this). The sentence was not the reason for the warning. The warning was aimed at any further attempts to play the victim.

You utter falsehoods repeatedly even though I have repeatedly told you they are simply not true. Even in this conversation, you repeat your mantra of "you threatened to ban me for one sentence". If it was a mistake, a misunderstanding, and you used it only once before being corrected, I would feel differently. However you use it repeatedly even though being told it is wrong. That is a lie in my book.

I agree though, you are being very petty in this conversation, so I won't respond to you any more. I've already given the fair warning, and this conversation is getting in the way of actual discussion.

[Pippy]

If you would please stop calling me a liar, it offends me to no end. I feel it is unjustified, but, of course, do as you will.

I agree, we should just move on. Again.

[Eilonnwy]

To attempt to drag this thread back to one of it's original points.

Do people think that having been brought up as a theist gives them more knowledge and insight into arguing against the subject as someone like myself who has never been religious?

Hmmm?

Yes.

I'm a big fan of the Atheist Experience, and there are a couple of lifelong atheists on the show, and they, to me, struggle more with debating theists than the host, Matt, who was once a fundie. Matt often will say "I'm putting my Chrisitan hat on" and then explain how a Christian views something, and then go ahead and demolish the point anyway. It can be really helpful, when debating a Christian, to understand where their thinking comes from because then you can understand the point they are making. It would be helpful in the sense that a lifelong atheist can see the problem, but the ex-theist can also probably phrase the problem in their argument in ways they "get it".