Give all your money to the poor, and follow me.

[Minimalist]

Second off, I am generally annoyed at the assumption by Christians that somehow Atheists haven't read the bible, or that if they have they've read it biased.

Have you ever noticed that when xtian assholes accuse us of being biased against their fucking bible they never admit that they are biased for it?

Just another of the little mental quirks that they go through to convince themselves that this shit has any relevance in the modern world.

[Aractus]

Oh you've taken it out of context, you've taken it out of context, boo hoo hoo.

Hey CaptnAs, I gave you an explicit example of your manipulation. Don't come back and try to claim that you didn't intentionally manipulate what Matt 19 says.

An Atheist can't say anything about the bible without it being out of context, and then be given the 'correct' context which is the most long winded and manipulative interpretation of a very simple command that Jesus instructs not just the young man in the verse, but his disciples, and general people over and over again.

Hmm... according to you:

• Matthew 19:21 (Context: talking to a man who asks Jesus how to get to heaven.)
  Jesus answered, "If you want to be perfect, go, sell your possessions and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow me."

And here is the correct context ...

• Matt 19:16: And behold, a man came up to him, saying, “Good Teacher, what good deed must I do to have eternal life?”

Jesus responds.

• Matt 19:17: And he said to him, “Why do you ask me about what is good? There is only one who is good. If you would enter life, keep the commandments.”

See the issue here yet mate? No? See if you can keep up then...

• Matt 19:18-19: He said to him, “Which ones?” And Jesus said, “You shall not murder, You shall not commit adultery, You shall not steal, You shall not bear false witness, Honour your father and mother, and, You shall love your neighbour as yourself.”

...that was the ruler's second question.

• Matt 19:20-22: The young man said to him, “All these I have kept. What do I still lack?” Jesus said to him, “If you would be perfect, go, sell what you possess and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven; and come, follow me.” When the young man heard this he went away sorrowful, for he had great possessions.

.. that was his THIRD question. I know it's difficult for you counting 1-3, but did you keep up the count this time? You did? Well done!

So what is the answer to the question "what good thing shall I do that I may have eternal life?" That's right "keep the commandments", NOT "If you wish to be perfect, go, sell your possessions, and give [the money] to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven; then come, follow me."

While we're at it why don't I point this out to you:

• "If you wish to be perfect, go, sell your possessions, and give [the money] to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven; then come, follow me."

Sorry, but were you expecting it to read this:

• "If you wish to be perfect, go, sell your possessions, and give [the money] to the poor, and you will have eternal life; then come, follow me."

Why would god make a book which requires this convoluted interpretation disguised as a really simple one? What possessions did Jesus and the Apostles own? What did they spend their time doing? Watching a big screen TV while there are suffering people in the world? That will give you a clue as to how this, and the other similar verses are to be interpreted.

Up until Jesus was about 30 he was a carpenter. He was a productive member of a capitalist society.

For the record, I don't take the harsh view of the bible that most Atheists on here do, Yeah there is a lot of silliness in it, the old testament has horrible laws, but that's just a product of the times. I happen to this is one of the good verses in it. Good advice on how to live your life. It's too bad Christians want to wiggle their way out of it rather than have their own unbiased reading of the bible.

There is no wiggling, you've simply misquoted the Bible.

Second off, I am generally annoyed at the assumption by Christians that somehow Atheists haven't read the bible, or that if they have they've read it biased. Most of us were Christians at some point. I did most of my bible reading as a Christian.

All I said is that you misquoted the Bible in order to construct your point. And you did.

[CapnAwesome]

So you are saying that I should of focused on the treasure part and not the heaven part? You are stretching. I think that's pretty clear that Jesus is referring to him going to heaven from that, and you are just adding your own interpretation. None of your nitpicking takes away from my point anyway, which is that Jesus clearly commands people to live simple lives devoid of material possessions, if you don't agree you simply haven't read the bible unbiasedly.

As for Jesus being a carpenter until he was 30
A. There is no record of Jesus between the time he was 7 and 30
B. He definitely was not accumulating possessions between that time, and if he was he gave them all that way.

[Aractus]

He gave it all away?



Wouldn't he have had to pay for his education with the money?

B. He definitely was not accumulating possessions between that time, and if he was he gave them all that way.

And I'm the one "interpreting" the Bible??

[CapnAwesome]

He gave it all away?



Wouldn't he have had to pay for his education with the money?

B. He definitely was not accumulating possessions between that time, and if he was he gave them all that way.

And I'm the one "interpreting" the Bible??

Pay for his education? Well now I know I'm talking to someone who doesn't really know the bible as well as he claims. There is no recording of Jesus having an education in the Gospels or anywhere else. Seems redundant for the son of God anyway. Also it's certainly historically inaccurate for 1st century jewish peasants to be educated.

As for your second part, that's not a matter of interpreting the bible, it's a matter of very basic logic. A man has no possessions at the age of 30, there are really only two options, he A. never had any. B. Gave them away.

It's possible there was Nazereth mini-storage, but I see it as unlikely. I also see it unlikely that Jesus was a hypocrite telling others to give away their possessions while not doing so himself.

[Aractus]

It doesn't have to be in the Bible. Luke 2:52 says that he "increased in wisdom and in stature and in favour with God and man". He was most likely tutored personally in his studies. He and his father were builders, not "peasants". Joseph and Mary wouldn't have been poor as you imagine they were.

[Dee Dee Ramone]

you imagine they were.

Indeed.

[Minimalist]

A. There is no record of Jesus between the time he was 7 and 30

There is no record of jesus, period, other than the horseshit cobbled together by later "followers."

[ronedee]

A. There is no record of Jesus between the time he was 7 and 30

There is no record of jesus, period, other than the horseshit cobbled together by later "followers."

Do you ever utter an intelligent word?

[Dee Dee Ramone]

There is no record of jesus, period, other than the horseshit cobbled together by later "followers."

Do you ever utter an intelligent word?

The truth hurts.