Views on Islam

[Something completely different]

It is a diverse religion, just like every other one.
There are Sunis, Shias and those who are mainly from Oman (of which I currently dont know the name)

Within those 3 parts there are also various different ways of worship. Such as Sufis and Salafists within Suni islam.

What my opinion on it is?
Well I reject to believe in it, thats why I am an atheist.
Other than that, I opose the notion that Islam is especialy violent ore more violent than other religions.
But I do believe that the Islamic world is currently going through a cultural conflict in which especialy salafist fundamentalism has tried to build up an unquestionable position of power since the 1970s.

I dont think I have such a thing as one general opinion on all of islam, I am a person who likes details and makes up his opinion to these smal details.
You would have to ask me my opinion on specific parts of islam or the islamic world.

Willkommen im Forum.

[Zen Badger]

Islam, the religion of peace.....



Not......


You are 17 hey?

Living in a strongly Muslim country are you?

If not, go and do so for a couple of years ( I would suggest Saudi Arabia or Afganistan). Then come back and tell us what you think.

For the reality of Islam is a long way from the ideal you seem to think it is child.

[Aractus]

I was just wondering what Athiests views are these days on Islam.

Oh I can't tell you my views on Islam not being an Atheist?



I'll tell you later ...

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Thanks. What things is islam do you regard as barabaric? Just curious.

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Well it isn't too hard to find barbarism in Islam as it is practiced in reality.
Have you heard of google?

Oi Brakeman, can you use hide tags for that kind of content?? Not saying not to post it, but some warning would be much appreciated!

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"death of 13-year old Yemeni child bride Elham Assi, who reportedly bled to death last week after being tied down and forced to have sex with her 23-year-old husband"
Why that article is truly shocking. And barbaric. But is haram in islam based on the Qur'an.
As for marriage age it is when the person is physically(puberty) and mentally ready for marriage. And marriage can only take place by consent from the man and the women.

You addressed one part of that, but not the other.

Let's say I'm somewhat sympathetic to "age of consent" laws, but at the same time somewhat apprehensive about them. So I can appreciate the argument that age of consent shouldn't be set in stone. That said - in what reality is it ever okay for a husband to force his wife to have sex with him??

[Zen Badger]

- in what reality is it ever okay for a husband to force his wife to have sex with him??

In the muslim "reality" donchaknow

[ThatMuslimGuy]

I understand your viewpoint but i would argue they are completely different. Different concept and natures of god.

Well then, let's review my list of traits then and see how both measure up:

1. Deity is based on god of Abraham.
2. ...who wants worship of mortals and who listens to prayers.
3. Afterlife promises judgment with two fates: Heaven and Hell.
4. Faith-based scheme of salvation.
5. Has sacred book of revelation.
6. Greatest moral concerns: Blasphemy, apostasy, idolatry, homosexuality, consensual-but-unmarried sex.
7. Served by angels.
8. Reigns in Heaven.
9. Opposed by the Devil.
10. Tries to keep women in submission.
11. Claims to be loving and merciful yet seems to inspire fear in followers.
12. Religion features iconic figure, Jesus, who came into this world by a virgin woman and left it by flying up into the sky to be in Heaven.
13. Had prophets named in the OT.
14. Created Adam and Eve as first humans (precludes teaching of evolution by those who take a literal view of scripture).
15. Preaches peace with memorable quotes like "Turn the other cheek", "Love thy neighbor" or "Do not strike first for Allah does not like aggression"
16. Has inspired "holy wars" throughout history (crusade/jihad). The word for it is different but the outcome seems to be the same.

Please correct me if I'm wrong but I'm running down the list saying, "check, check, check, check, check..."

1. Deity is based on god of Abraham. I would aggree
2. ...who wants worship of mortals and who listens to prayers. Would agree
3. Afterlife promises judgment with two fates: Heaven and Hell. Would agree
4. Faith-based scheme of salvation. Would agree
5. Has sacred book of revelation. Would agree
6. Greatest moral concerns: Blasphemy, apostasy, idolatry, homosexuality, consensual-but-unmarried sex. I would personally question the blasphemy and apostosy.
7. Served by angels. Would agree
8. Reigns in Heaven. Would agree
9. Opposed by the Devil. Would agree
10. Tries to keep women in submission. Would 100% disagree
11. Claims to be loving and merciful yet seems to inspire fear in followers. Would 100% disagree
12. Religion features iconic figure, Jesus, who came into this world by a virgin woman and left it by flying up into the sky to be in Heaven. Would agree
13. Had prophets named in the OT. Would agree
14. Created Adam and Eve as first humans (precludes teaching of evolution by those who take a literal view of scripture). Would agree
15. Preaches peace with memorable quotes like "Turn the other cheek", "Love thy neighbor" or "Do not strike first for Allah does not like aggression" Would agree
16. Has inspired "holy wars" throughout history (crusade/jihad). The word for it is different but the outcome seems to be the same. Would question what Jihad who are refering to. As Jihad doesnt mean holy war but Struggle.

From my viewpoint the differences were.
Christianity has the concept of the trinity.
Islam opposes this.
The bible has many questioning stories where god orders massacres and prophets do unprophet like things e.g. lot has sex with his daughters. These things which make you question the nature of god.

In islam these unprophet like things dont exist and the concept of the divinity doesnt contradict itself within the scipture.

Yeah there are lots similarities but i personally feel much difference in the nature of god and the concept (e.g. the trinity vs Tawheed)

[KichigaiNeko]

- in what reality is it ever okay for a husband to force his wife to have sex with him??

In the muslim "reality" donchaknow

Also don't forget "some" christian sects as well.... (wouldn't want to leave them out now would we?)

[Zen Badger]

I like the way that when confronted with the revolting acts carried out daily by muslims around the the world he says "oh, but that's not what islam is"

Well there are millions of muslims that disagree with you pal.

So instead of wasting your time on an atheist forums where no-one gives a rats arse about what you believe, why don't you trot off and tell your fellow muslims where they're going wrong.

And good luck with that lad, I doubt you'll make it to 18.

[ThatMuslimGuy]

As a muslim i would love you to explain to me what you mean by rich language? do you know arabic? I genuinely am intrigued by this because when muslims say no one could recreate a verse like the quran i think to myself, i can think of several times when ive read something that seems like the quran, and what do they mean by "like" anyway. To me the bible is like the quran.
And if the quran is a better rich language and no english speaking person could translate the quran does this mean no english speaking person could learn arabic since there are some untranslatable words?

Also do you believe the aztecs were worshiping the same god as the muslims when they killed people daily for sacrifice or was that a different god? or the same god but the messenger made a mistake somewhere along the line? was the god of the tribes of papa new guinea the same or different because he forgot to tell them to dress modestly and not to commit cannablism on each other.
This points again to the fact religion is man made, different men, different cultures create different religions
Also, sending out messengers or warners to so many nations, why bother? if this is an attempt to unite the world under one god and prove his existence then as you can see from historical and modern day examples its a bit of an epic failure and a pathetic attempt on gods behalf. Its like after he spoke with mohammed he thought "meh i just cant be bothered anymore ive tried three times already with the torah the bible now the quran, theyre just going to have to sort it out for themselves now." This shows either total lack of enthusiasm or limited ungodly power, if you must believe in a supernatural cause for all these different gods that only seem to provide mirracles at certain times and tell certain people to believe certain things then why not believe in telepathic aliens pretending to be gods? isnt it just as plausable?
A better alternative would be to write a book now in english and maybe a few other languages, since way way way way more people can actually read now.
Basically to sum it up there is NO evidence for god that isnt man made. And even muslims should admit to this since their holy book was only recited by god to mohammed, even mohammed couldnt write it he had to get somone else to write it.

By the way muslim guy it looks to me like youre in debates with several people at once here so ill understand if you dont reply really soon, take your time.

What i meant by the rich language was that it is very detailed. For example the word rabb excumses many English meanings. In Arabic the word Rabb has three meanings: (i) Lord and Master; (ii) Sustainer, Provider, Supporter, Nourisher and Guardian, and (iii) Sovereign, Ruler, He Who controls and directs. God is the Rabb of the universe in all three meanings of the term.
Im currently learning arabic.
No one as been able to recreate a verse like the Qur'an. Remember the Qur'an is in arabic so doubt you have ready things similar. Maybe an english meaning of the Qur'an many things are similar but this has lost so much of its depth and meaning as explained the one rabb when translated can lose a lot of meaning.
I think they mean something that has is as beautiful, has such depth and meaning, grammar and literacy perfect. Their are many boxes to tick. An english speaking person can learn arabic yes. My friend has studied for 6 years knows it better than most Arabs. The problem with translation is that you need to concise one word with one word in a book. When learning arabic you could encompses all the meanings of rabb automatically when you hear rabb and list them but that would be very long in a translation for just one word and wouldnt flow properly. e.g. "Praise be to Allah, the Lord of the entire universe."
if fully translated would be like "Praise be to Allah, the Lord, Master, Sustainer, Provider, Supporter, Nourisher and Guardian, Sovereign, Ruler, He Who controls and directs of the entire universe."
you get me the translation would be huge. So they use one word lord but have lost the other meanings.
Personally i dont know much about aztec worship. And i couldnt comment on if they had been sent a prophet then switched it up down the line. Same for papa new Guinea.

"meh i just cant be bothered anymore ive tried three times already with the torah the bible now the quran, theyre just going to have to sort it out for themselves now."
lol maybe he did oj

"telepathic aliens pretending to be gods'
Thats what my brother believes.

"Basically to sum it up there is NO evidence for god"
i agree their is no empirical evidence for god.

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It is a diverse religion, just like every other one.
There are Sunis, Shias and those who are mainly from Oman (of which I currently dont know the name)

Within those 3 parts there are also various different ways of worship. Such as Sufis and Salafists within Suni islam.

What my opinion on it is?
Well I reject to believe in it, thats why I am an atheist.
Other than that, I opose the notion that Islam is especialy violent ore more violent than other religions.
But I do believe that the Islamic world is currently going through a cultural conflict in which especialy salafist fundamentalism has tried to build up an unquestionable position of power since the 1970s.

I dont think I have such a thing as one general opinion on all of islam, I am a person who likes details and makes up his opinion to these smal details.
You would have to ask me my opinion on specific parts of islam or the islamic world.

Willkommen im Forum.

Really like your reply alot of truth in there Thanks. I will soon.

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Islam, the religion of peace.....



Not......


You are 17 hey?

Living in a strongly Muslim country are you?

If not, go and do so for a couple of years ( I would suggest Saudi Arabia or Afganistan). Then come back and tell us what you think.

For the reality of Islam is a long way from the ideal you seem to think it is child.

Your probably right. But i know many saudie men, people who have worked their for hears. And tbh theyve never said anything bad. Apart from many of their unislamic laws.

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I was just wondering what Athiests views are these days on Islam.

Oh I can't tell you my views on Islam not being an Atheist?



I'll tell you later ...

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---

---

Well it isn't too hard to find barbarism in Islam as it is practiced in reality.
Have you heard of google?

Oi Brakeman, can you use hide tags for that kind of content?? Not saying not to post it, but some warning would be much appreciated!

---

"death of 13-year old Yemeni child bride Elham Assi, who reportedly bled to death last week after being tied down and forced to have sex with her 23-year-old husband"
Why that article is truly shocking. And barbaric. But is haram in islam based on the Qur'an.
As for marriage age it is when the person is physically(puberty) and mentally ready for marriage. And marriage can only take place by consent from the man and the women.

You addressed one part of that, but not the other.

Let's say I'm somewhat sympathetic to "age of consent" laws, but at the same time somewhat apprehensive about them. So I can appreciate the argument that age of consent shouldn't be set in stone. That said - in what reality is it ever okay for a husband to force his wife to have sex with him??

"in what reality is it ever okay for a husband to force his wife to have sex with him??"
That is never ok and something haram in Islam. Rape is huge capital offence.
But let me explain a few of the rights of the wife and husband.

One of the rights of the wife is that she must recieve Sexual Intercourse. That her sexual desires must be fullfilled. Also their has to be lots of foreplay, recommended that up to two thirds of it should be foreplay, in order to build the women up to increase the love between the spouses and make them comfortable. (not making this up went to an islamic lecture a few days ago and got told this with proof from the quran and hadiths). The man cannot deny the women sexual intercourse unless he has a reason e.g. ill or something. However this doesnt mean she can force herself on him. No. Another rule is that the Women and the Man have to treat each other kindly with love. Also their is an underlying rule in the Sharia that if it causes harm or harm to others it not allowed. So a wife forcing herself on her husband would be haram. If the women doesnt recieve her right of sex after a certain time after discussing it she can file for divorce. If any of them are mistreated they can get divorce.

Now one of the rights of the many is also that he gets sexual intercourse, his sexual desires fulfilled. And the women cannot stop this without a good reason. Now many people have misused this and its sad to hear. Bu t they again missed out the other right of the wife to be treated with love and kindness. Forcing yourself on her would violate this rule and she could ask for divorce. Also the other underlying rule that if it causes harm or harm to others not allowed.

So it never ok for man to do that. And the sharia states that isnt and a women can file for divorce straight away.

[frankiej]

I like to view it from afar.

[ThatMuslimGuy]

I like the way that when confronted with the revolting acts carried out daily by muslims around the the world he says "oh, but that's not what islam is"

Well there are millions of muslims that disagree with you pal.

So instead of wasting your time on an atheist forums where no-one gives a rats arse about what you believe, why don't you trot off and tell your fellow muslims where they're going wrong.

And good luck with that lad, I doubt you'll make it to 18.

Ok. Bit aggressive only wanted to know your opinions. I'm only replying to these horrific situation from what is taught in the Qur'an and the Sahih Hadith. Not what people teach. So i do think i can say that's not what islam is if the actions have no islamic basis and are only actions of humans.