All Hail the Second Amendment

[The Grand Nudger]

I don't think that the solution to jackasses with guns is to encourage the private citizen to buy a gun himself, so that he might be more competently equipped to engage in a firefight with his neighbor.

The notion that having a gun somehow solves the problem of someone else (someone dumb/crazy/drunk/criminal) having a gun is ridiculous on it's face. Now you have two jackasses with guns. Ones a nut as per the scenario, and the other one got a gun explicitly to be able to shoot people with it, so...also, in my mind, a nut. Problem compounded, not solved. I doubt that either is a very good shot, so now you have twice as many jackasses shooting at each other, twice as many bullets flying randomly into everything -except- the target, and twice as much potential for collateral damage of the kindergartener variety. What about this sounds like a good idea?

(and since you're new to the thread.....I'm one of the pro-gun guys round these parts, I don't think that our guns should be legislated away either - even if they were, I wouldn't hand mine in even for a buyback over market value, I'd bury them)

[Tonus]

I'm sorry if rednecks keep shooting you. You should buy a gun, so you can take away their guns.

Wouldn't a magnet do a better job of that?

[The Grand Nudger]

As an amusing aside, I actually had this problem, roughly, when I first bought this house. I noticed when I got the place that a clutch of trees on one side of the property had been shot to shit by a .22 - but I didn't make anything of it. There's a nice steep incline behind the stand that serves as a good backdrop (I use it as a burm to stop larger rounds myself) - so I figured that the previous owner did the same. After I'd been here awhile I noticed that some of the damage was new, fresh sap was oozing (but I hadn't been shooting). So I took a look back across the angle where the rounds would have to come from given the pattern on the trunk, realized that there was a house on that line of fire, hopped the fence, and went a knockin on my neighbors door. Turns out his (teenage) kid puts jars and bottles on a fence post and plinks em with a .22 (which probably wasn't a problem for anyone because the house had been vacant a long time before I got it) of the AR variety. I explain the situation, that the rounds are going over a corner of my property and I have 4 very young children who wouldn't know to come inside just because they hear a .22 that may or may not be zinging inches over their heads..and who aren't really that good at staying away from any particular part of my property when they play....and that I do hear his sons .22 going off alot and it worries the shit out of me. I suggest a lead backdrop or a different firing lane (plenty of options, we live in hill country). Everything seems fine, he apologizes, says he'll make sure his kid doesn't shoot in my direction anymore. Couple of weeks go by - and I hear the .22 popping off again. I see new damage on the trunks in the stand again.

-So what do I do, do I post up in a tree with a 270 to countersnipe this jackass and maybe put a few through his dads window for good measure? No, I called the cops. Because that's what you do when people are shooting in your general direction.

-the hilarity ensues, for those interested

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So, cops go out there and warn the kid (which was generous of them). The real kicker here is that Daddy hops the fence and bitches at me, spinning some story about how his kid has a right to shoot a gun on his property and how he puts the jars on the ground now and that any overflight was an honest mistake - that I shouldn't have involved the cops because they threatened to take his little ratgun away from him and now he's got his name in the system. I remind him that his kid doesn't have a right to shoot over my property, or even a right to make such a "mistake" - that its dangerous, negligent, and maybe the cops do need to take his asshole sons gun away and let him spend a night in juvy, and that any damage his son's "mistakes" cause are going to come directly out of daddys hide (this I promised him, and may or may not have implied that I might start making similar mistakes with a larger caliber rifle if he thinks that's okay) I don't think I made a friend on that one. Im pretty much 50/50 so far in buddying up to my neighbors...which is rough...but some of these people...fuck!

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[DramaQueen]

So...guns are toys?!!
How old is his son?

[The Grand Nudger]

Like I said, teenager of some stripe, he tears ass down our lane in a pickup, I assume he's old enough to drive it (but that might be an unjustified assumption here....lol). It's a "sporting rifle", so yeah, I'd call it a toy. It's definitely not a tool (as I would describe some of my rifles). Some of my rifles are "toys" as well. Nothing wrong with that, so long as he can "play" with his "toy" without sending rounds over my head. That's all I take issue with.

For reference, my daughter is 6 and already displays more competence and forethought with her bb gun than his teenage son does with a semi auto .22 - so I don't think I'm being unreasonable in requesting that he think about where his bullets go when they leave the barrel - that he, and by extension his father, follow the laws on the books regarding what one may and may not do with a rifle - even on their own property. It's not an issue of rights, in this instance, to my mind, it's an issue of responsibility. The fact that the father went off the chain about rights and his kids future while being seemingly oblivious to(or unwilling to address) the fact that his son was firing into someone else's property - which is pretty much chock full of small children (my neighbors kids are here all the time too, they live on a little postage stamp wedged between me and my neighbor so my yard is their yard)..... explains all I need to know in trying to figure out why his kid's a negligent dick. Like father like son.

To bring this round to the crux of the thread. Is it okay to take this kids gun away, or take his fathers gun away as being responsible for what his minor child does with his guns - by force if necessary? I'd say so - and I'd say that the law allows for this and that it is -not- an infringement of any right. I haven't had any trouble since the second time I had a talk with my neighbor, but if I do I'm just going to call the cops again, and I fully expect to see action taken - I won't drop it until I do, if I have to go through the trouble of involving a sheriff just to keep someone else's bullets off my lawn, lol. I'm not going to take it into my own hands because it isn't my job to do so, nor am I vested with the authority to do so (nor would I want to....imagine shooting someone for a moment, even someone that was trying to hurt you..I think that alot of people who imagine even a "home invader" scenario fail to fully comprehend how awful the experience of shooting someone could be), nor are "good guys with guns". That's just not how it works here. I've been to places where it does work like that, I doubt that many would want our country to emulate those places - because I didn't see a whole hell of alot of my countrymen there, people weren't exactly tripping over themselves to get in-country. Why some people want to turn this place into a shithole they would and already do avoid is beyond me. My grandfather had this to say about "gun nuts" of Mins description. "They're going to ruin it for you and me boy". That's pretty much what I see in the whole gun debate currently.

[Minimalist]

This entire thread is dedicated to the proposition that your idea is total horseshit.

Yes, taking away guns by force is a total horseshit idea. I'm glad you have a thread about respecting gun rights.

Now you're getting desperate, ape, or silly. If you like shooting your neighbors, just say so. There are probably some who would defend your right to do so.

I'm not one of them.

Here's 100 more Gun Fails - they had been falling down on the job but good to see them getting back to work.

The write ups include....

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2014/10/17...-caught-up

From around mid-August to early September, we saw 11 "home invasion" shootings, that is, where someone has accidentally fired into their neighbors' home or property, not counting two additional instances of firing into a neighboring hotel room. There were also 11 target shooting accidents of various kinds, five hunting accidents, five accidents while cleaning still-loaded guns, six various FAILs involving law enforcement or security officers, three shootings of people mistaken for intruders, two accidental shootings arising from attempted interventions in ongoing attacks or robberies, three accidental discharges while out shopping or dining in public, and the first accidental discharge in the classroom of the still-young school year.

The really alarming numbers, though, were among those who accidentally shot themselves (33), those who accidentally shot a family member or significant other (11), and kids who were accidentally shot (29). Among all the carnage, 17 of the 100 incidents on the list resulted in fatalities.

Of all the law-abiding responsible gun owners this is my favorite.

Tossing your gun into a fire!

NORTH BEND, OR, 8/15/14: A handgun accidentally thrown in a fire discharged 3 rounds, hitting one man in the leg and grazing another man's abdomen, the Coos County Sheriff's Office said. Dustin Shermer, 27, of Grants Pass called 911 around 9:42 PM Friday to report he had accidentally shot himself in the leg. Deputies met Shermer at the hospital. Shermer said he and 2 friends had built a fire with brush they'd brought with them to the North Spit, north of North Bend. He told deputies he had placed his 38 Smith and Wesson pistol on the tailgate of his truck. At some point, the gun got caught in the brush and was thrown into the fire. Once the fire heated up the gun, it fired three rounds. One hit Shermer in the thigh. Another grazed the abdomen of 25-year-old Matthew Parker of North Bend. Deputies determined Shermer's account was accurate and that no criminal activity took place, the sheriff's office said.

Guns don't kill people. Assholes with guns kill people.

[stonedape]

If you like shooting your neighbors, just say so. There are probably some who would defend your right to do so.

Why would I shoot my neighbors? They never did anything to me.

[The Grand Nudger]

Why would you shoot them even if they had?

[Brakeman]

Guns don't kill people. Assholes with guns kill people.

So if one of these assholes with a gun threatens a man's family, are you suggesting that the only thing they can do is to call the "fucking cops," as you often refer to them, even though the cops don't really protect anybody, they just clean up after the crime?

You are completely right in your claims that gun lovers are nutty and very dangerous, but even though a gun for protection is fraught with problems, it is still really the only game out there. It is exactly what the cops will bring to deal with a perp with a gun.

I was raised with guns in the "hillbilly" area of east TN amongst a neighborhood where Every house had multiple guns and every man and boy along with many girls knew how to shoot. Heck, I've been making my own ammo since I was 14 or 15 years old.

I have had professional training in how to shoot from the US government and also from other CCW trainers. So I do know that I won't, barring an act of a god I don't believe in, make the mistakes that litter this post. Every time I touch a gun I consciously think about how quickly my life as I know it could go down the shithole if I make a mistake, maybe even if I don't.

Yet, I am not really your target demographic in that I don't romanticize guns, and I have been sickened and appalled at the insanity that I have seen in the very few times I have gone to firing ranges here in the south because of their nuttery and Anti-obama/NATO/black man/liberals/Illuminati/NRA crap that they have posted so often on their walls.

Wow, I'm rambling.. back to topic..

In my Mexican, Central American and South American travel and experience I came into constant contact with gangs, often but not always connected with Narcotics trade. How would you recommend that a man protect his family in area's that are filled with gangs? Many cities in the US have this problem, but some cities are actively combating the gang problems, so for the purpose of discussion, assume we are not in one of those areas that has a strong and active anti-gang force.

[stonedape]

Why would you shoot them even if they had?

Why would anybody wanna shoot me?