the wife beating verse

[paulpablo]

I consider everyone a brother or sister. Either in faith or in humanity. And I look forward to understanding your viewpoints :-)

Any viewpoint against islam can be argued against but its just using your own judgement to see wether these excuses are genuine and good enough, in this thread i showed you two different muslims both making excuses for the wife beating verse but one of them says it does say beat but it means with a toothbruth the other says it doesnt say beat it means hit with an idea.
They both claim to understand the quran and have access to scholars who are experts yet they both cant even agree.
It isnt even only on this topic.
On the topic of the quran saying something like "and he was created from a drop formed between the backbone and ribs" i know some muslims say man is somehow formed from between the backbone and ribs, then other muslims say wait no the translation is wrong it doesnt even mean backbone and ribs, so was man made from between the backbone and ribs or not? or is the translation wrong? completely contradicting arguments trying to prove the same thing, basically saying ANYTHING, anything at all just to get around telling what is actually the truth. The quran is over 1500 years and is out of date with todays morals and is also scientifically wrong. Thats pretty much the truth.

[ThatMuslimGuy]

I consider everyone a brother or sister. Either in faith or in humanity. And I look forward to understanding your viewpoints :-)

Any viewpoint against islam can be argued against but its just using your own judgement to see wether these excuses are genuine and good enough, in this thread i showed you two different muslims both making excuses for the wife beating verse but one of them says it does say beat but it means with a toothbruth the other says it doesnt say beat it means hit with an idea.
They both claim to understand the quran and have access to scholars who are experts yet they both cant even agree.
It isnt even only on this topic.
On the topic of the quran saying something like "and he was created from a drop formed between the backbone and ribs" i know some muslims say man is somehow formed from between the backbone and ribs, then other muslims say wait no the translation is wrong it doesnt even mean backbone and ribs, so was man made from between the backbone and ribs or not? or is the translation wrong? completely contradicting arguments trying to prove the same thing, basically saying ANYTHING, anything at all just to get around telling what is actually the truth. The quran is over 1500 years and is out of date with todays morals and is also scientifically wrong. Thats pretty much the truth.

I think something to note is that within different schools of thought in Islam there are different views. For example one school of thought may have a slightly different action at a certain point during prayer. etc etc.

As Muslims we are told by the Qur'an to hold to the rope of Allah and to follow what the Qur'an and the Sunnah teaches. So with many things Muslims follow what has the most evidence for.
Some viewpoints are strong some not.

But yeah i totally understand what your saying.

[Al-Fatihah]

Bolding mine. Are you really trying to argue that the qur'an says "tap your wife until she loses it and obeys you"?/rhetorical

Response: It is rather you saying that you can't tell the difference bewteen just discipline and abuse.

[Creed of Heresy]

Bolding mine. Are you really trying to argue that the qur'an says "tap your wife until she loses it and obeys you"?/rhetorical

Response: It is rather you saying that you can't tell the difference bewteen just discipline and abuse.

Oh for fuck's sake, you're STILL AROUND?!

---

Also define "discipline."

[paulpablo]

As Muslims we are told by the Qur'an to hold to the rope of Allah and to follow what the Qur'an and the Sunnah teaches. So with many things Muslims follow what has the most evidence for.
Some viewpoints are strong some not.

But yeah i totally understand what your saying.

Not every muslim believes in the sunnah at all and most dont believe in all the sunnah because some of the hadith are ridiculous, including stories about muhammed stoning a monkey to death for having bad sexual relations

[The Grand Nudger]

Response: Then I would only be doing you a favor since your weak rebuttals only encourage people to run from you and embrace islam. Thanks for the assistance.

You sure it isn't all the "tappings" doing the encouraging? I mean, cmon, don't give that godless heathen any credit for what muslims have accomplished all by themselves.

[ThatMuslimGuy]

As Muslims we are told by the Qur'an to hold to the rope of Allah and to follow what the Qur'an and the Sunnah teaches. So with many things Muslims follow what has the most evidence for.
Some viewpoints are strong some not.

But yeah i totally understand what your saying.

Not every muslim believes in the sunnah at all and most dont believe in all the sunnah because some of the hadith are ridiculous, including stories about muhammed stoning a monkey to death for having bad sexual relations

Yes. Some Muslims don't follow the Sunnah. The majority of Scholars and Tafsir's written use the Qur'an and authentic Hadith's.

[paulpablo]

yeh so the islamic religion is one that comes straight from the source of god..........to an illiterate man, but then he couldnt write so other people wrote the recitation down for him, but then they didnt compile the book because the recitation was over several years so the book was compilater later, which was then translated into english, but then the translated words didnt mean the right things so they had to be revised and retranslated by scholars to match up with whats morally and scientifically correct.
And the sunnah which isnt even the word of god but the word of some men who supposedly lived around the time of muhammed but a lot of these muslims agree are fake because by the 9th century they had mushroomed into hundreds and thousands of them so then a bunch of other scholars use their own opinion about which to follow and which not to follow.

All i can say is gods communication skills with humanity arent that good, especially if youre a muslim and happen to believe this stuff.

In fact on the website im looking at now a muslim asks the following questions

1. Did Muhammad bring one or two books?

2. Why did the hadith take 250-350 years to be compiled and why do Sunnis have different collections from Shi'ites?

3. What factors led to the emergence of the hadith?

4. What is the connection between the hadith and the decline and backwardness of Islam?34

i mean according to what ive been looking into recently there isnt even historical evidence muhammed existed, outside of the hadith and quran so i wouldnt even bother to ask these questions.

[ThatMuslimGuy]

yeh so the islamic religion is one that comes straight from the source of god..........to an illiterate man, but then he couldnt write so other people wrote the recitation down for him, but then they didnt compile the book because the recitation was over several years so the book was compilater later, which was then translated into english, but then the translated words didnt mean the right things so they had to be revised and retranslated by scholars to match up with whats morally and scientifically correct.
And the sunnah which isnt even the word of god but the word of some men who supposedly lived around the time of muhammed but a lot of these muslims agree are fake because by the 9th century they had mushroomed into hundreds and thousands of them so then a bunch of other scholars use their own opinion about which to follow and which not to follow.

All i can say is gods communication skills with humanity arent that good, especially if youre a muslim and happen to believe this stuff.

In fact on the website im looking at now a muslim asks the following questions

1. Did Muhammad bring one or two books?

2. Why did the hadith take 250-350 years to be compiled and why do Sunnis have different collections from Shi'ites?

3. What factors led to the emergence of the hadith?

4. What is the connection between the hadith and the decline and backwardness of Islam?34

i mean according to what ive been looking into recently there isnt even historical evidence muhammed existed, outside of the hadith and quran so i wouldnt even bother to ask these questions.

The reason why it was revealed to an illiterate man is to show the miracle of the Qur'an. How could an illiterate man recite a book that no one has been able to match to this day?
"And the sunnah which isnt even the word of god but the word of some men who supposedly lived around the time of muhammed"
The Arabic word Sunnah has come to denote the way Prophet Muhammad (S), the Messenger of Allah, lived his life. The Sunnah is the second source of Islamic jurisprudence, the first being the Qur’an. Both sources are indispensable; one cannot practice Islam without consulting both of them.
The Arabic word hadith (pl. ahadith) is very similar to Sunnah, but not identical. A hadith is a narration about the life of the Prophet (S) or what he approved - as opposed to his life itself, which is the Sunnah as already mentioned.
Many hadith are weak or false which is why only Sahih or authentic hadiths should be trusted.
If are interested in hadith, research the science of hadith which is very complex and interesting subject.

http://www.islamic-awareness.org/Hadith/Ulum/
http://www.islamic-awareness.org/Hadith/...ences.html

[Dee Dee Ramone]

ThatMuslimGuy,

Have you ever doubted the qu'ran?