Jesus, Least Fit Moral Judge

[Minimalist]

Now see this is a perfect example of the reason Christ allowed the church to grow into the monster it became.

So jesus is an asshole? Interesting way you have of looking at your 'god.'

[Cinjin]

You do realize Drich that the "work" you do here only serves to further damage the reputation of your precious savior. You do realize this right?

Jesus (the version that you believe walked the earth) has got to absolutely despise you by now.
Your responses are borderline nauseating at this point. I honestly think you have done far more to discredit your religion than I did in studying it's true history.

[Drich]

It isn't Jesus who put a stop to (most) of the atrocities of Christianity today. I say "most" because they still commit them where they can. See the modern witch hunts of Africa for one example that leaps to mind.

It is civilization. Christianity is like a rapid dog that has been caged and muzzled. Christians point to the dog and say, "see, it's not biting anyone anymore." But that's only because it has been restrained. Take a good look at the Dominionist movement to get an idea of what Christians would do if they could.

Even if we were to accept the premise that Jesus was responsible for taming Christianity, the problem for the theist then becomes why did it take so long?

Why did it take so long? From who's perspective did this process take a long time? Certainly not God's. If a 1000 years is but a day, in his eyes the Church matured in less than a days time. Even if you are suggesting it be from our perspective, who are you to say how long it took man to full fill his want and lust for power through the church?

It took as long as needed for man to want and will the Change of his own accord. Alot of blood had to be shed for us to look beyond mindless tradition.

[DeistPaladin]

Why did it take so long? From who's perspective did this process take a long time? Certainly not God's. If a 1000 years is but a day, in his eyes the Church matured in less than a days time. Even if you are suggesting it be from our perspective, who are you to say how long it took man to full fill his want and lust for power through the church?

It took as long as needed for man to want and will the Change of his own accord. Alot of blood had to be shed for us to look beyond mindless tradition.

[Drich]

In law - there is a concept called either Depraved Ambivalence or Depraved indifference - In which a person who KNOWS a crime will be committed has a duty to inform the authorities or do something to prevent that crime - and failure to do that is equivalent to abetting the crime - and is normally applied to Major crime like murder - terrorism - rape - sex crimes on children - etc.

WE call a person who watches people commit illegal sex acts to be a "pervert."
If a god actually existed - and was - as claimed by the religions - almighty - all seeing and all knowing - then

Today - more than 3000 babies and very young children will be sexually molested by a family member.

IF a god is ALL KNOWING - it knows that will happen
IF a god is ALL SEEING - it actually watches it happen
AND if a god WERE almighty - it would supposedly have the ability to PREVENT it from happening

If ALL the god does is sit there and look down - it is a depraved pervert

So your version of Epericus' paradox?

In short free will. If God stops us from doing what we want then we do not have the ablity to truly be apart from His Expressed Will. God is not the super hero your sunday school teacher made Him out to be. God set the ground rules to a point where no one could keep them, and then set a way for those who loved Him to attone for those broken rules. This is the "free will" I speak of not the freedom to choose to do as we want. For we are slaves to sin (forced or bound to it.) Free will is the ablity to Love God and seek attonement from sin. Evil or the ablity to be evil and rape and destroy is the oppsite of the will to Love God. this is the Choice we have. With out the ablity to truly Hate God we have no will of our own. This hate is manifest in the things Epericus mentioned. In short Evil or rather the ablity to do evil is the proof of Free will.

So No evil, no Free Will. So to recap: Why does God allow evil things to happen? Because He has given us the gift of free will (the ablity to love and seek attonement from Him. Evil is the by product of those who do not love God nor want anything to do with him.

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You do know I have google right? So you will know that when I type in Morder witch hunt Africa" I get a list on non Christian tribes men hunting and killing (mostly women) for putting curses on their villiages and or family members. Witch hunts are and always have been apart of Sub-Saharan African culture. Christianity is a new adaptation being incoperated into that culture. in some ways very sucessfully and others not so much. given enough time and the chance Christ will put a stop to witch hunts in their culture as He did in western culture.

Unfortunately, Christ still loves genocide and still hates gay people.

from you pov it appears so.

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Christ allow the church to grow into a perverse monster for a reason, to allow it to mature and grow into what it was always meant to be. Why? because we (Christian's) Needed to see the progression to fully understand who we are and what it is the church is supposed to be. Christian needed that thorn in our collective flesh to help us retain true humility. So that we do not boast of the greatness of man made worship, but to give glory to the attonement that truly saves and not to our own efforts.

Wow. How arrogant can you get? Christ allowed torture and genocide in his name simply so you and others could gain understanding? To believe others were allowed to be slaughtered so you could gain a unique perspective on your religion is nothing short of sickening. You are justifying your God's complete indifference to human life by saying, "well, I benefited from it, so that must have been the reason."

Fuck me, that's disgusting.

what a narrow view of life.

Would you not gladly live 40 to 50 years as a popper in exchange for eternal bliss? what if this bliss was gifted to all of the like minded who came after you? wouldn't you sacerfice yourself for the billions that would follow the trail you have blazed? Wouldn't you do this for yourself?

Your comment is why Christ said: "In order to become the First in the Kingdom of Heaven you are to make yourself last" (and subsequently the last shall become first.) Those who suffer and die will be held higher than those who benfit from said suffering.

[FallentoReason]

Drich's last few responses... Just... Wow.

Justifying the death of thousands upon thousands of innocent people doesn't make you any different than a terrorist. Can you please for one second stop and think how nonsensical you're sounding?

[Brakeman]

Your comment is why Christ said: "In order to become the First in the Kingdom of Heaven you are to make yourself last" (and subsequently the last shall become first.) Those who suffer and die will be held higher than those who benefit from said suffering.

Good old fashion caste system in heaven huh? How's that work? Do the death bed confessional's appear black in heaven? Do they have to wear a patch on their clothes? How fair is that? A finitely small difference in works during a infinitesimally short lifetime creates a lesser heaven for some christians?

Sounds like an ancient middle eastern goat herder didn't think his story through..

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Your comment is why Christ said: "In order to become the First in the Kingdom of Heaven you are to make yourself last" (and subsequently the last shall become first.) Those who suffer and die will be held higher than those who benefit from said suffering.

Good old fashion caste system in heaven huh? How's that work? Do the death bed confessional's appear black in heaven? Do they have to wear a patch on their clothes? How fair is that? A finitely small difference in works during a infinitesimally short lifetime creates a lesser eternal heaven experience for some christians?

Sounds like an ancient middle eastern goat herder didn't think his story through..

[Faith No More]

what a narrow view of life.

Yes, what a narrow view to believe that torture and genocide should never be used to achieve a goal.

Would you not gladly live 40 to 50 years as a popper in exchange for eternal bliss? what if this bliss was gifted to all of the like minded who came after you? wouldn't you sacerfice yourself for the billions that would follow the trail you have blazed? Wouldn't you do this for yourself?

This is completely irrelevant, because no one in question "sacerficed" themselves. We are talking about the unlawful taking of lives in your god's name, and how you are trying to justify your god's indifference to it. Also, this statement makes it sound as if you are trying to justify it by saying, "Well, I'm sure if they had been asked, they would have gladly given their lives, wouldn't you?" This is as equally disgusting as your previous justification.

Your comment is why Christ said: "In order to become the First in the Kingdom of Heaven you are to make yourself last" (and subsequently the last shall become first.) Those who suffer and die will be held higher than those who benfit from said suffering.

Sounds more like Christ is saying, "Shut up, and take what I give you," but even if we were to assume this is valid, what exactly are you doing to make yourself last?

[Fidel_Castronaut]

What in the world could ALL Christians be doing on a sunday that "you people" do not?

Sinning?

[Drich]

Drich's last few responses... Just... Wow.

Justifying the death of thousands upon thousands of innocent people doesn't make you any different than a terrorist. Can you please for one second stop and think how nonsensical you're sounding?

Washington, Jefferson, Adams all terrorists. Or so said the English, according to their actions against england and against the king. terrorism is a word mention to invoke an emotional response one that insists people check their objectivity at the door. It is also a word that force one to choose sides without seeking any further understanding or detail. If you insist on using that word then i am sure the founding fathers of this nation would be glad to welcome Jesus Christ into their "terrorist organization."

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Good old fashion caste system in heaven huh?

Sure this is not the first time you heard of this?

How's that work? Do the death bed confessional's appear black in heaven? Do they have to wear a patch on their clothes?

I don't think either one of us will have to worry about that one.

How fair is that?

Where in the bible does it say it is supposed to be?

A finitely small difference in works during a infinitesimally short lifetime creates a lesser heaven for some christians?

If a wealthy man tells you to find the largest bag you can, and you wait till the last minute to get one then it stands to reason the fruit of your efforts will not yeild the same result as someone who has spent time doing what He has been told to do.

Now if this wealthy man set you in front of unimaginable riches and tells you to fill the bag that he told you to bring, and you cram as much as you can in your bag, but it is not 1/10th of what someone like Paul or peter can fit into their bag, then is the wealthy man being unfair? Is it wrong that by following the instructions of the rich man, men like peter and paul have the Capasity to take in more of what is offered than you do? No of course not.

Sounds like an ancient middle eastern goat herder didn't think his story through..

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Yes, what a narrow view to believe that torture and genocide should never be used to achieve a goal.

red herring much? Oh wait you totally do.

This is completely irrelevant, because no one in question "sacerficed" themselves.

When one dies for what He or she believes then they are sacerficing themselves for their belief.

We are talking about the unlawful taking of lives in your god's name, and how you are trying to justify your god's indifference to it.

Actually no. The burning of witches, the inquisition the crusades, ALL Lawful!

Also, this statement makes it sound as if you are trying to justify it by saying, "Well, I'm sure if they had been asked, they would have gladly given their lives, wouldn't you?" This is as equally disgusting as your previous justification.

The were asked and the held fast to their beliefs rather than submit to perverse rule.

Sounds more like Christ is saying, "Shut up, and take what I give you," but even if we were to assume this is valid, what exactly are you doing to make yourself last?

Who says i want to be first in Heaven? I'll be happy mopping floors after parties in heaven.

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What in the world could ALL Christians be doing on a sunday that "you people" do not?

Sinning?

..and confessing of those sins.

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You do realize Drich that the "work" you do here only serves to further damage the reputation of your precious savior. You do realize this right?

Jesus (the version that you believe walked the earth) has got to absolutely despise you by now.
Your responses are borderline nauseating at this point. I honestly think you have done far more to discredit your religion than I did in studying it's true history.

As I am Anti religion (christian or other) I would say that is a good thing. I am not here to preach a religion or traditional christian practices. My job is to provide biblical truth EVEN IF it steps on your religious ideas of what Christianity is supposed to be.