Bad Christian advice for dating, marriage, etc

[RichardP]

I'll start by discussing "relationship" advice that I think is bad.

When I was first starting out in college the Christians were pushing "Group dating" rather than dating one-on-one.

Well it is not easy to set up a group date. Especially if you don't know the girl that well. It is bad enough to have to call up the girl that you're interested in and ask her out, let alone having to call up other single friends and to try and set up a "group date".

And as I discovered -- on the first, and last, group date that I ever went on -- you need to establish who is with who ahead of time! I mean you're on the group date and the girl that you are interested is showing interest in you and talking to you, when suddenly another guy starts competing with you for her attention...


And I noticed that Christian groups were sort of class societies and there were certain guys who were allowed to just date one-on-one. Like the student leader of the church college group. At the end of the school year he announced that he was engaged and introduced his fiance to the group.

I said something to my friend like "I didn't even know that he had a girlfriend."

And he told me "Yeah he like to keep his personal life private."

"So he was just going on regular dates with her?"

And my friend looks at me like I'm an idiot, "Yes! He's a more mature Christian."

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Then the Christians came up with the brilliant idea of "Courting" instead of dating.

Instead of asking the girl out on a date you tell her that you would like to "court" her. Both your parents and her parents get involved. The "dates" are chaperoned and she is told that breaking off the "courtship" is almost the equivalent of breaking off an engagement.

Wow talk about moving fast and a making things high pressure! I guess you better be extremely careful and choosy about who you court!

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Then there is the bizarre Christian preoccupation with masturbation. Why do they even worry about it? It's like the somehow think that if you don't masturbate then you won't have any sexual thoughts -- and you won't fool around. It always operated exactly the opposite with me. I think that as a guy you need the sexual release.

I wonder about Priests who have to live a celibate life. They are forbidden from having a sexual relationship with women. So what do they do? They molest young boys. I guess that technically they're still not having sex with women!!!

And I have dated ex-Nuns before -- and I can tell that is a mistake! But it is a thrill though. Talk about a sex craved woman! One woman I dated had been out of the convent for a little over a year and I found out that she had about 6 different "boyfriends". One of them got her pregnant and she married him.

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And I always hear Christians giving advice like "You need to be happy and well adjusted all by yourself before you consider dating and marrying. Because the woman won't fill that "void" in your life."

The hell she won't! I have been my happiest and "best adjusted" when I was in a good relationship. Maybe a bad relationship won't fill the "void" but a good relationship sure as hell can! Of course people can argue "Well then why aren't you married to her?" And I have to admit that we were different. Different goals, different ambitions, and.... I financially wasn't ready to get married and support children.. And after a painful breakup she quickly married somebody else and my chances of getting back together with her were gone.

But the experience tells me that a good relationship can definitely fill the "void" -- the need to be with somebody to love and share your life with. And I'm not sure that I really regret the past relationships that did not make it. I have good memories and enjoyed life more at that time because of the relationship. I'd like to think that we both did.

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[RichardP]

[Drich]

[Cato]

[RichardP]

[Drich]

It just seemed a bit hypocritical for him to stand up in front of the group and preach group "dating" while he did the standard dating himself. People in that group had gotten on my case because I had a "girlfriend" who I was just going on normal dates with. And no, at that time, I was not fooling around with her. They were honestly totally innocent dates.

I was a little annoyed. I was about the same age as him. What made me "less mature" of a Christian? Was it really any of their business? And I did not like that I was being viewed by them as "immature" -- almost like they were my superiors.

Christianity is not a "what is good for the goose is good for the gander" religion. It Never has been. throughout the writing of Paul, he seperates the Freedom Christ offers from those who do not understand or can not in good consciencous accept the freedom Christ offers. One of the more popular teachings on this is the "Meat offered to Idols." Paul tells us it is ok to eat this meat, but he says if a brother who was brought up in the tradition that meat offered to idols was sinful, and still believes this in light of this truth, then for Him it is a sin to eat of this meat. Subsequently it is also to eat this type of meat in his presents lest it causes him to sin. Paul goes on in other passages to teach this about all newly 'silent' areas of the bible including: Cleansing cermonies, Holy days, Marriage, Remaining single, Traditional unclean animals, and anything else that we do not have a direct "NT" Command.

Apply this to his ablity to date. If for him it was a non issue then he has been granted the freedom to date. at the same time he was tasked to not set an example that some of you were not able to live up to. so keeping his private life private was the right thing to do.

That would be no different than your trainer being able to indulge in a peice of cake when at his home. But when he is at work helping you to get or maintain fitness, then it would be wrong for him to eat cake infront of you or even talk about it least it causes you to stumble.

You know I never heard any porn connection mentioned in any of the talks about the evils of masturbation.

Some expressions of Christianity are like that, and others not so much.

Yeah but that can be true in any friendship.

Indeed, so why start the Biggest 'friendship' you will ever be apart of and look to start out by taking or leaning on the other person?

Do you tell that to a new kid at school who hasn't made any friends yet? Pull him aside and explain that the problem is that he is too "needy" and if he were to make friends he would just end up taking from the other kids -- and not giving enough to the friendship? And he needs to learn to be happy, and not lonely, by himself before he goes seeking friends?

Yes, and then you work with said kid to equip him with the tools to be content with whatever his situation.
Children who can not be alone grown into adults who can not be alone.

You are married. You have to know that a relationship is an ongoing thing -- just like eating.

I was not talking about the relationship when speaking of 'eating.' You orginally said that you had an emptyness and was looking to fill it with a relationship. What I am trying to say is if you do not learn to fill yourself/find peace contentment before you enter your relationship, you will 'eat' or consume your partner, rather than help each other sustain one another.

I'm don't think that you should view yourself as "messed up" just because you really want to meet the right person and get married.

Not what I said. What makes one "Messed up" is the idea that marriage will make you whole. Christians are as guilty of this as everyone else.

Maybe that is why their is no difference in the divorce rate.

[RichardP]

It just seemed a bit hypocritical for him to stand up in front of the group and preach group "dating" while he did the standard dating himself. People in that group had gotten on my case because I had a "girlfriend" who I was just going on normal dates with. And no, at that time, I was not fooling around with her. They were honestly totally innocent dates.

I was a little annoyed. I was about the same age as him. What made me "less mature" of a Christian? Was it really any of their business? And I did not like that I was being viewed by them as "immature" -- almost like they were my superiors.

Christianity is not a "what is good for the goose is good for the gander" religion. It Never has been. throughout the writing of Paul, he seperates the Freedom Christ offers from those who do not understand or can not in good consciencous accept the freedom Christ offers. One of the more popular teachings on this is the "Meat offered to Idols." Paul tells us it is ok to eat this meat, but he says if a brother who was brought up in the tradition that meat offered to idols was sinful, and still believes this in light of this truth, then for Him it is a sin to eat of this meat. Subsequently it is also to eat this type of meat in his presents lest it causes him to sin. Paul goes on in other passages to teach this about all newly 'silent' areas of the bible including: Cleansing cermonies, Holy days, Marriage, Remaining single, Traditional unclean animals, and anything else that we do not have a direct "NT" Command.

Apply this to his ablity to date. If for him it was a non issue then he has been granted the freedom to date. at the same time he was tasked to not set an example that some of you were not able to live up to. so keeping his private life private was the right thing to do.

That would be no different than your trainer being able to indulge in a peice of cake when at his home. But when he is at work helping you to get or maintain fitness, then it would be wrong for him to eat cake infront of you or even talk about it least it causes you to stumble.

You know I never heard any porn connection mentioned in any of the talks about the evils of masturbation.

Some expressions of Christianity are like that, and others not so much.

Yeah but that can be true in any friendship.

Indeed, so why start the Biggest 'friendship' you will ever be apart of and look to start out by taking or leaning on the other person?

Do you tell that to a new kid at school who hasn't made any friends yet? Pull him aside and explain that the problem is that he is too "needy" and if he were to make friends he would just end up taking from the other kids -- and not giving enough to the friendship? And he needs to learn to be happy, and not lonely, by himself before he goes seeking friends?

Yes, and then you work with said kid to equip him with the tools to be content with whatever his situation.
Children who can not be alone grown into adults who can not be alone.

You are married. You have to know that a relationship is an ongoing thing -- just like eating.

I was not talking about the relationship when speaking of 'eating.' You orginally said that you had an emptyness and was looking to fill it with a relationship. What I am trying to say is if you do not learn to fill yourself/find peace contentment before you enter your relationship, you will 'eat' or consume your partner, rather than help each other sustain one another.

I'm don't think that you should view yourself as "messed up" just because you really want to meet the right person and get married.

Not what I said. What makes one "Messed up" is the idea that marriage will make you whole. Christians are as guilty of this as everyone else.

Maybe that is why their is no difference in the divorce rate.

Thank you for taking the time to respond. You did a better job of illustrating the Christian perspective than I could have ever done. These views were some of the things that drove me away from Christianity and got me to begin questioning it.

How about the "side hug" video?!!

[Drich]

How about the "side hug" video?!!

I try and not watch videos. I made that mistake a couple different times on one of the other atheist sites and saw something that was not properly repersented. Bait and switch.

I'm sure it was awkward.

also:
1thess 5:21 Question all things and hold on to what is good. To Question religion is not a sin.

[RichardP]

How about the "side hug" video?!!

I try and not watch videos. I made that mistake a couple different times on one of the other atheist sites and saw something that was not properly repersented. Bait and switch.

I'm sure it was awkward.

also:
1thess 5:21 Question all things and hold on to what is good. To Question religion is not a sin.

This is a video made by Christians. I don't think it was supposed to be a joke.

[Minimalist]

the Christians were pushing "Group dating" rather than dating one-on-one.

You mean like orgies?

When I was in that collage age group, i started a singles group in my church which originally consisted of 6 members

I'll bet there were some sore wrists in that bunch.