What the hell is "hell"? why do humans go to hell ?

[WinterHold]

It all comes down to your believe in luck, in religion luck is a myth. People are getting what they worked for.

It's all justice.

Totally. That 5-year old said no to her parents once, and that's why her intestines are now outside her body.

Very gory.
But it's unfair to judge a person before he/she is responsible, right ?

It's really weird, that humans nag all the time about being "perfect & don't need any help", but when God does it & leaves everything to them, they also backfire & nag about how god is cruel !

and if god took charge over them, they would go back again & nag about how god doesn't leave a chance for them to rule by themselves.

A wonderful specie.

---

I would like to know how you understand a statement like "explained through science".

They didn't explain where the phenomena comes from, but how it takes place.

Do you know the concept of recursion ? In Computer Science, it's a function calling a function for infinity, unless you put a brick point called "the base case", to stop the function call at a certain time.

In any science in the world, you go into a recursive rode, until you reach the base case. In any physical object you would reach the atom, that's your base case.

I want you to explain to me where the base case comes from in your opinion : ) You can also find a lot of other base cases inside the atom itself. I'm not asking about what an atom is.

Am asking where this atom came from.

Please tell me you started to see the point.

If you go by the standard model, the smallest particle is a quark.

If you go by string theory, the smallest constituent is a string.

Where did these things come from?
We don't really know.

Why did they come about?
Does there have to be a reason? Does there have to be an anterior motive?

If yes, the god hypothesis must be subjected to the same line of questioning. Where did the god come from? why?

The theist concept only pushes the question one step back, while presenting an unverifiable answer to the previous step.
Many have claimed then that god is eternal and has always been there, and whatever.... Why can't I make the same claim for the Universe's constituents?
As far as verifiability, we're on the same stand-point.
Why would someone add the extra step?

I actually agree on your point, in its very core.

We all reach the conclusion of "something can't be explained". So it's all up to choose a way to deal with that.

Some of us go to the idea of the creator, others go to the other road.

again, it's all up to arrogance. People who have pride probably choose the other path, while the weak turn to the idea of the creator.

Might also explain why religion is always wild-spread in poor countries.

[paulpablo]

One of the biggest argues of atheist against islam, is odds.

It isnt

[WinterHold]

One of the biggest argues of atheist against islam, is odds.

It isnt

If it isn't, and evolution is almost the main argument about creation, then can you explain to me why evolution happened, or why the big bang happened ?

the 0.00000000000000001 possibility that it might happen ??

[paulpablo]

Which creation story are you talking about?
If you can show me the creation story ill tell you what i think are the best arguments against them and i might not even need any theory of evolution or big bang.

[Violet]

Very gory.
But it's unfair to judge a person before he/she is responsible, right ?

"There is no such thing as innocence, only degrees of guilt."

How is a creature not responsible for their actions at all times?

It's really weird, that humans nag all the time about being "perfect & don't need any help", but when God does it & leaves everything to them, they also backfire & nag about how god is cruel!

What humans say that they are perfect and need no assistance?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jBDF04fQKtQ

and if god took charge over them, they would go back again & nag about how god doesn't leave a chance for them to rule by themselves.

A wonderful specie.

Because ending one form of slavery with another would go down without a hitch, right?

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If it isn't, and evolution is almost the main argument about creation, then can you explain to me why evolution happened, or why the big bang happened ?

What does change occurring after life has been formed have to do with abiogenesis?

I always thought evolution was one of the coolest tools any god might have at her disposal... shame to think of it like that

[pocaracas]

I actually agree on your point, in its very core.

Good!

We all reach the conclusion of "something can't be explained". So it's all up to choose a way to deal with that.

Some of us go to the idea of the creator, others go to the other road.

yep, people do that...
- It can't be explained, hence there must have been some creator (each religion then has its own).
- It can't be explained hence I don't know.

Which position do you think is the most honest?

again, it's all up to arrogance. People who have pride probably choose the other path, while the weak turn to the idea of the creator.

Might also explain why religion is always wild-spread in poor countries.

LOL wild-spread! New expression!
*wide-spread*

I wouldn't call it arrogance. I'd call it honesty. Intellectual honesty.
The intellect which is lacking in those poor countries which use it all for survival instead of delving in questions like these - now this was arrogant!

[Brian37]

It isnt

If it isn't, and evolution is almost the main argument about creation, then can you explain to me why evolution happened, or why the big bang happened ?

the 0.00000000000000001 possibility that it might happen ??

Please clarify this, because not knowing still does not constitute clinging to myth or superstition.

We have knowledge about what the processes of evolution are. We also know scientifically what the past history of the universe was.

The unknowns in science would not and do not and should not cause anyone to go "GOTCHA SO THEREFORE MY FANTASY FILLS IN THAT GAP".

Humans are extremely uncomfortable with "all this" merely being a process, like seasons changing so they project human qualities on the world around them. There is a word for that "anthropomorphism".

[Faith No More]

Now, the guy smelled something fishy. If you still think, that the universe doesn't point to god, then you have a problem. I wouldn't contradict Einstein if I were you.

Niether should you.

I have repeatedly said that in my opinion the idea of a personal God is a childlike one. You may call me an agnostic, but I do not share the crusading spirit of the professional atheist whose fervor is mostly due to a painful act of liberation from the fetters of religious indoctrination received in youth. I prefer an attitude of humility corresponding to the weakness of our intellectual understanding of nature and of our own being.

- Albert Einstein to Guy H. Raner Jr., Sept. 28, 1949, quoted by Michael R. Gilmore in Skeptic magazine, Vol. 5, No. 2

6. Albert Einstein: Idea of a Personal God Cannot be Taken Seriously
It seems to me that the idea of a personal God is an anthropological concept which I cannot take seriously. I also cannot imagine some will or goal outside the human sphere.... Science has been charged with undermining morality, but the charge is unjust. A man's ethical behavior should be based effectually on sympathy, education, and social ties and needs; no religious basis is necessary. Man would indeed be in a poor way if he had to be restrained by fear of punishment and hope of reward after death.

- Albert Einstein, "Religion and Science," New York Times Magazine, November 9, 1930

7. Albert Einstein: Desire for Guidance & Love Creates Belief in Gods
The desire for guidance, love, and support prompts men to form the social or moral conception of God. This is the God of Providence, who protects, disposes, rewards, and punishes; the God who, according to the limits of the believer's outlook, loves and cherishes the life of the tribe or of the human race, or even or life itself; the comforter in sorrow and unsatisfied longing; he who preserves the souls of the dead. This is the social or moral conception of God.

http://atheism.about.com/od/einsteingodr...al-God.htm

[WinterHold]

"There is no such thing as innocence, only degrees of guilt."

So children are not innocent ?
That idea is extreme, even for an extremist.

Thanks though, I'll will increase my brutality towards children because they're not innocent.

How is a creature not responsible for their actions at all times?

When they lack the ability to visualize what the conclusion of their actions would be.

What humans say that they are perfect and need no assistance?

Full of narcism, I think.

Hey let's not go to gangsta rap.

Because ending one form of slavery with another would go down without a hitch, right?

If you say so
But it's still up to your distorted image of slavery.

What does change occurring after life has been formed have to do with abiogenesis?

I always thought evolution was one of the coolest tools any god might have at her disposal... shame to think of it like that
[/quote]

evolution was written not to support religion & creation, but the other road.

It's hard to twist it to fit your believe.

I thought the theory claimed that the operation of evolution comes from the need
That's why fish have no hands.
and creatures living in deep layers don't have eyes

That itself is against the idea of creation

do you even know what the idea of creation is ?

[Napoléon]

So children are not innocent ?

Depends if they swallowed the Lego piece intentionally or not.