Islam & Evolution, were we wrong ?

[WinterHold]

Hi.

First of all, I'm still in a resign state. I'm not discussing anymore ; it's only a topic that includes new stuff I have found.

I have said before that evolution was against the concept of religion, the main reason for this is the common ancestry of all creations.

But here, I have found another path in the Quran, that might prove evolution might not contradict religion after all, might also proves it as "a real scenario which took place".

First, the story of creation in the Quran must be mentioned. and some verses which may seem contradicted, unless they were explained by evolution.
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The creation of humans, took place after a very long time since the creation of heaven & earth. This verse even states that there was another race on earth, living before humans :

Verse 30, Sura 2
"God said to the angeles, I'm going to put a successor in earth, the angeles said : would you put on it who corrupts it & shed blood ? "

So, humans were a new creation, following another, which explains the word " successor".

Those creations are unknown. The Quran mentioned nothing about them, and muslim scholars came up with crazy theories, mostly built on the common middle eastern fairy tails, so nobody knows anything about those creations.

Science might be able to answer this question ; as far as I know, the only group of creations which shed blood in a very high scale were the dinosaurs.

The verse states that the angeles directly concluded that this "successor" would also kill & shed blood (i.e another creation similar to animals) .

The surprise is, god said then :

"God said to the angeles, I'm going to create a human, from "Mud" (71) When I finished from adjusting him, then blowing my soul into him, you shall kneel to him"

Human came up intelligent. He wasn't like the "predecessors" on earth ; the human was different, that's why the angeles were told to kneel for the first human.

The thing is, a story happened after that, then humans were forced to "descend" to earth, after living in heaven. Clearly god already knew that they would be forced out of it after sinning ; that's why he told the angeles that they would become successors on earth.

Given that whole story we conclude the following :

1-The first human was created out of "Mud", according the Quran.

2-Humans were successors to a savage race of creations, killers (mostly animals, since the angeles thought that the new creation is also "going to shed blood & corrupt the land".

3-The first human was created in heaven.

But what is weird here is the following verses :

"(God) creates you inside the bodies of your mothers, in stages, one after another" (39:6)
" Was (man) not a sperm which has been poured out?. " (75:37)
" Verily, We created man from a small quantity of mingled liquids " (76:2)

and then this verse :

" We created you out of dust, then out of a sperm, then We fashioned you into something which clings into a chewed lump of flesh, partly formed and partly unformed" (22:5)

Which probably explains something a little bit weird.

We were created out of dust.
Then, we were created out of "Sperm" ??

Here's where evolution kicks in. Or how I thought about it through the verses.

It goes like this :

The first human ever was created right away from mud (dust & water). but that was on heaven.

In order to descend into earth, this human will not survive. Heaven is a different place, different rules & different lifestyle.

The human (in order to live on earth like a native being) must then be born from within earth, from the materials of earth itself.

"Descend on it, and you shall be enemies to each other"
"From it we created you, and to it we return you, and from it we resurrect you".

So according to the Quran, the human was "re-created" from earth.

Now how the hell would that happen ? why ?

In many verses, god describe the journey of humans to earth as (descending), not only humans, even some animals :
"God "sent down" 8 pairs of cattle".

The conclusion I got is that, humans & the animals necessary for their survival has descended with them (only 8 pairs). Then what the hell happened to the rest animals, where did they come from (beasts, birds ...etc) ?

The only possible & rational explanation is the following :

Dinosaurs lived on earth. A meteor struck them. Some of them survived, and evolved eventually.

Here we have two ways to explain (according to the topic's way of showing stuff) for the coming of humans :

1-the meteor which hit the dinos, had a molecule, which from it the cattle & humans were evolved.

2-the meteor contained many molecules, each evolved to a certain being.

I think that evolution is the only way to explain the creation of humans as explained in the Quran.

Now, the final verse (which led might lead me to believe totally in this explanation), is this :

"He -god- bested the creation of everything, and started the creation of the human from mud (7) then he maid his descendants from a chain from degrading water".

Now, I gave a promise not to discuss
But feel free to post anything you want.

[Minimalist]

The only possible & rational explanation is the following :

There is a far more rational and possible explanation.


I.e., all religions were created by primitive men to explain their immediate surroundings. There is a reason why desert goat herders did not write about kangaroos. They never saw them.

[Faith No More]

I like nachos.

[WinterHold]

The only possible & rational explanation is the following :

There is a far more rational and possible explanation.


I.e., all religions were created by primitive men to explain their immediate surroundings. There is a reason why desert goat herders did not write about kangaroos. They never saw them.

At least take some time to read the topic & think about it in a serious way -_-"

[downbeatplumb]

I like nachos.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CMNry4PE93Y

[Minimalist]

Way beyond doing that, mon ami. There is no saving grace in your fairy tales. Just as there is none in anyone esle's fairy tales.

Give me a nudge when you are ready to face reality.

[CapnAwesome]

Doesn't seem very likely. You just trying to fit two opposing worldviews together. What evidence is there that some sort of molecule was on the dinosaur comet? None. This is just making stuff up.

[katieMatt]

Anyway, I thought dinosaurs and humans lived at the same time according to creationism???

[WinterHold]

Doesn't seem very likely. You just trying to fit two opposing worldviews together. What evidence is there that some sort of molecule was on the dinosaur comet? None. This is just making stuff up.

The word "descend". In arablic it literally means "land", like in "the plane landed".

اهبطوا-اهبط-هبط-هبوط

How could humans land if they can't fly ?

[Cyberman]

The only possible & rational explanation is the following :

Dinosaurs lived on earth. A meteor struck them. Some of them survived, and evolved eventually.

Sort of. At that time, there were far more species of animal life than just dinosaurs, all of which were the evolutionary descendants of their particular strain of species. The cataclysm which overtook the dinosaurs - which might have been the direct result of an exceptionally large asteroid but was most definitely not a meteor, please learn the difference - also managed to wipe out many other species as well, while creating the opportunity for still other species to take advantage of the now vacant niches and thus be fruitful and multiply in their own right.

Here we have two ways to explain (according to the topic's way of showing stuff) for the coming of humans :

1-the meteor which hit the dinos, had a molecule, which from it the cattle & humans were evolved.

2-the meteor contained many molecules, each evolved to a certain being.

I realise you're only applying this in the context of your textual acrobatics, but both of those options are so much bulldust. Any molecule that may have been carried to Earth would either have been sterilised by the event, or become exposed to the tender mercies of the microscopic lifeforms already outstandingly successfully extant here. There would be no need to invent a unique creation event for each species, still less each creature. The fact that all life on this planet is based on the DNA molecule and is traceable shows that all such life shares a common ancestry.

I think that evolution is the only way to explain the creation of humans as explained in the Quran.

Now, the final verse (which led might lead me to believe totally in this explanation), is this :

"He -god- bested the creation of everything, and started the creation of the human from mud (7) then he maid his descendants from a chain from degrading water".

Now, I gave a promise not to discuss
But feel free to post anything you want.

If nothing else this shows that you are at least looking critically at this stuff, even if you still haven't been able to take the next step and let go with both hands.