[quote='justin' pid='396389' dateline='1360034962']
[quote]no i didn`t disagree with joseph. i would`ve keep away from those nut cases also. but he didn`t stay in eygpt he was on his way to jerusaluem( not sure if i spelled that right?) then god came to him again and said change of plans herods son took over and he`s bad too so go to nazerath.[/quote]Let's look at what is actually written:
Mt2:
19 Now when Herod was dead, behold, an angel of the Lord appeared in a dream to Joseph in Egypt, 20 saying, “Arise, take the young Child and His mother, and go to the land of Israel, for those who sought the young Child’s life are dead.” 21 Then he arose, took the young Child and His mother, and came into the land of Israel.
22 But when he heard that Archelaus was reigning over Judea instead of his father Herod, he was afraid to go there. And being warned by God in a dream, he turned aside into the region of Galilee. 23 And he came and dwelt in a city called Nazareth, that it might be fulfilled which was spoken by the prophets, “He shall be called a Nazarene.”
[quote] i mean i undertook the impression that god was a secret informant that wasn`t gonna do anything but just give joseph some tips here and there.[/quote] What gave you that impression? verse 23 points to the full fillment of prophesy rather than, the tip giving business. God's 'tips' always push in the direction of His will.
[quote] my standards for a god like i said were higher and from the perception people have from the bible that i have dealt with. so with that said i was trying to get some a rational outside perspective to see if there was a better defense for this,as my opinion, bad cia movie. [/quote]...based on your standards of God. Or rather your personal idea of God. One that seems to be based in personal feeling.
[quote]lol and what`s up with all those innocent children that herod ordered to death? like i said i found myself asking "wtf?" alot.[/quote]Herod knew he was at the end of his life and wanted his legacy to continue on (look up Herod the greats accomplishments) He was setting up a 1000 year dynasty, and did not want some outside king to tear down what he spent a life time building.
[quote]first: ok so are you saying that satan is just as powerful or more powerful than god?[/quote]After creation God put man incharge of this world. At the fall of man Man gave control over to satan. At the time of Christ's physical birth (till his death) satan ruled this realm and had heavy influence over the hearts and mind of man. (Some sects of Christianity still believe he has this power over man.)
[quote]before anything else is`nt jesus god? [/quote]The Name "Jesus" refers to the Physical incarnation of God the son, and The Physical aspect of of Jesus had a begining and an end.
Even so yes. Jesus was God the Son.
[quote]oh ok so herod didn`t send the wise men? he was mad cause they were going to worship someone else? then why if god was fond of sendin g them messages did he not tell them where jesus was so they didn`t get confused and start this whole mess.[/quote]It's only a mess if your looking to control the hearts and minds of men.
[quote] i mean children died because of this decision to ignore the results that he knew would come from the mistake so what`s up with that?[/quote]'Death' is not the end for God. It is only the beginning of another phase of life. as such is not a crime/sin.
third; 4;31 deuteronomy
31 (for the Lord your God is a merciful God), He will not forsake you nor destroy you, nor forget the covenant of your fathers which He swore to them.
This is a long way from the doctrine that says God is All Merciful, or is always bound to show mercy. For the same Bible speaks of the Wrath of God. If you read this passage contextually it simply says God is A merciful God. Meaning a God who shows Mercy. (But is not limited to this quality)
[quote] for mercy and matthew 5;44 tells to model after him to love your enemy.[/quote]44 But I say to you, love your enemies, bless those who curse you, do good to those who hate you, and pray for those who spitefully use you and persecute you,
This is not even close to the doctrine of omni benevolence you were leaning on.
[quote]fourth: an earthly realm? like the physical realm? what did he do that wasn`t of this realm when he was here? this doesn`t seem to make any sense.[/quote]
John 18:35 "Am I a Jew?" Pilate replied. "It was your people and your chief priests who handed you over to me. What is it you have done?" 36Jesus answered, "My kingdom does not belong to this world. If my kingdom belonged to this world, my servants would fight to keep me from being handed over to the Jewish leaders. But for now my kingdom is not from here."
Christ makes several other references of this before his death when people want to elevate him to an earthly king.
[quote]no i didn`t disagree with joseph. i would`ve keep away from those nut cases also. but he didn`t stay in eygpt he was on his way to jerusaluem( not sure if i spelled that right?) then god came to him again and said change of plans herods son took over and he`s bad too so go to nazerath.[/quote]Let's look at what is actually written:
Mt2:
19 Now when Herod was dead, behold, an angel of the Lord appeared in a dream to Joseph in Egypt, 20 saying, “Arise, take the young Child and His mother, and go to the land of Israel, for those who sought the young Child’s life are dead.” 21 Then he arose, took the young Child and His mother, and came into the land of Israel.
22 But when he heard that Archelaus was reigning over Judea instead of his father Herod, he was afraid to go there. And being warned by God in a dream, he turned aside into the region of Galilee. 23 And he came and dwelt in a city called Nazareth, that it might be fulfilled which was spoken by the prophets, “He shall be called a Nazarene.”
[quote] i mean i undertook the impression that god was a secret informant that wasn`t gonna do anything but just give joseph some tips here and there.[/quote] What gave you that impression? verse 23 points to the full fillment of prophesy rather than, the tip giving business. God's 'tips' always push in the direction of His will.
[quote] my standards for a god like i said were higher and from the perception people have from the bible that i have dealt with. so with that said i was trying to get some a rational outside perspective to see if there was a better defense for this,as my opinion, bad cia movie. [/quote]...based on your standards of God. Or rather your personal idea of God. One that seems to be based in personal feeling.
[quote]lol and what`s up with all those innocent children that herod ordered to death? like i said i found myself asking "wtf?" alot.[/quote]Herod knew he was at the end of his life and wanted his legacy to continue on (look up Herod the greats accomplishments) He was setting up a 1000 year dynasty, and did not want some outside king to tear down what he spent a life time building.
[quote]first: ok so are you saying that satan is just as powerful or more powerful than god?[/quote]After creation God put man incharge of this world. At the fall of man Man gave control over to satan. At the time of Christ's physical birth (till his death) satan ruled this realm and had heavy influence over the hearts and mind of man. (Some sects of Christianity still believe he has this power over man.)
[quote]before anything else is`nt jesus god? [/quote]The Name "Jesus" refers to the Physical incarnation of God the son, and The Physical aspect of of Jesus had a begining and an end.
Even so yes. Jesus was God the Son.
[quote]oh ok so herod didn`t send the wise men? he was mad cause they were going to worship someone else? then why if god was fond of sendin g them messages did he not tell them where jesus was so they didn`t get confused and start this whole mess.[/quote]It's only a mess if your looking to control the hearts and minds of men.
[quote] i mean children died because of this decision to ignore the results that he knew would come from the mistake so what`s up with that?[/quote]'Death' is not the end for God. It is only the beginning of another phase of life. as such is not a crime/sin.
third; 4;31 deuteronomy
31 (for the Lord your God is a merciful God), He will not forsake you nor destroy you, nor forget the covenant of your fathers which He swore to them.
This is a long way from the doctrine that says God is All Merciful, or is always bound to show mercy. For the same Bible speaks of the Wrath of God. If you read this passage contextually it simply says God is A merciful God. Meaning a God who shows Mercy. (But is not limited to this quality)
[quote] for mercy and matthew 5;44 tells to model after him to love your enemy.[/quote]44 But I say to you, love your enemies, bless those who curse you, do good to those who hate you, and pray for those who spitefully use you and persecute you,
This is not even close to the doctrine of omni benevolence you were leaning on.
[quote]fourth: an earthly realm? like the physical realm? what did he do that wasn`t of this realm when he was here? this doesn`t seem to make any sense.[/quote]
John 18:35 "Am I a Jew?" Pilate replied. "It was your people and your chief priests who handed you over to me. What is it you have done?" 36Jesus answered, "My kingdom does not belong to this world. If my kingdom belonged to this world, my servants would fight to keep me from being handed over to the Jewish leaders. But for now my kingdom is not from here."
Christ makes several other references of this before his death when people want to elevate him to an earthly king.
