Could Barack Obama be an Atheist?

[Shell B]

If you want to go ahead and forget that A. he doesn't make all of the decisions and B. he can't make decisions alone. A president is not blameless, but it is just silly to think he handles everything singlehandedly.

[CapnAwesome]

If you want to go ahead and forget that A. he doesn't make all of the decisions and B. he can't make decisions alone. A president is not blameless, but it is just silly to think he handles everything singlehandedly.

Of course. While he's not responsible for the entire debt obviously, he does support policies that just lead to more and more debt. While he's not responsible for the Iraq war, he supports our continued involvement in it. Of course he does have significant power of the DEA and appointments to it, so he does have the power to scale back drug enforcement. I think there are a lot of things Obama supports that I wouldn't consider rational policy. So it wouldn't surprise me if his Christianity is genuine.

[Shell B]

I wouldn't be surprised that he was Christian, even if all that were not accurate to some degree or another. I wouldn't say that being complacent about certain policies is necessarily supporting them, though. I think a president has to pick his battles and know which ones cannot be won in the current political climate. In fact, I might go as far as to say that is a very important aspect of the job.

[CapnAwesome]

I wouldn't be surprised that he was Christian, even if all that were not accurate to some degree or another. I wouldn't say that being complacent about certain policies is necessarily supporting them, though. I think a president has to pick his battles and know which ones cannot be won in the current political climate. In fact, I might go as far as to say that is a very important aspect of the job.

Except that he does support those policies. I mean you are free to believe that he's being complacent for political reasons, but I think when he called for more troops in Afghanistan throughout his first term, that's a pretty clear signal about how he feels on foreign policy. He makes clear statements about America's place in the world. Many other pacifists chose to believe that he is doing some sort of nod and wink in their direction (while drones target American citizens in Pakistan) but I take him for face value on his statements. Certainly they coincide with how policy actually plays out.

I don't think many of his political beliefs are based on rationality. The more I think about it, the more I think he probably is genuine about his unrational religious beliefs as well.

[Shell B]

Oh, you said Iraq. I didn't realize you meant Afghanistan.

I didn't say he was necessarily rational. I said that being rational does not mean one is not Christian. I am trying to figure out why people think he is an atheist.

[thesummerqueen]

Maybe there's just something about Obama that makes everyone want to think he's not a Christian.

I'm not here to argue Obama's policies. I am going to point out the above statement and also this:

atheism has always been about "us" rather that than " we and them"

Obama is, whether you agree with how it's being done or not (or whether it's being done perceptibly), dragging the presidency and congress into the 21st century. Hell, in some ways, it's only being dragged out of the 19th and into the 20th. To be "traditional" in this country is to put on a white Christian front, or to be white and Christian. For everyone who holds these values dear, it's better to paint Obama up as NOT a Christian so as to show how he's attacking everything good and traditional and American. For everyone who doesn't care if those traditions continue, it's cool to think of Obama as not a Christian (and hopefully an atheist) because then he's on their side, and sticking it to The Man, as it were. We all want someone hip and famous on our side, making us seem more legit, no matter what it is we're doing. Obama doesn't need to be an atheist in order for secularists and atheists to be recognized and given full rights. He only has to be a decent human being. As the god he professes to believe in preached peace and mercy and kindness, I'd say he's at least paying better lip service to his god than the fundies who are screeching against him. He doesn't seem to want to fuck over our school system with his god either, and so I don't give a fuck what he believes.

Now please, Meylis, I don't know where on the internet you have been hanging, but this thread alone - never mind the rest of the forum or the rest of the internet - displays "us vs them" tendencies from atheists. I wish it were so, but being an atheists is no guarantee of: accepting tolerant behavior, compassion towards fellow humans, inclusive feelings or behavior, or even intelligence. Obama appears not to be a cock on a national or personal level (argue all you want about international level). Religion or lack thereof has nothing to do with that. It just means he's not a cock, and that he wants to see this nation move forward in a way that it hasn't for at least the 8 years prior to his presidency, and has only inched forward in the first four years.

You do realize that we are behind in a LOT of stuff, right? There's a great speech at the beginning of the first episode of the Newsroom which exemplifies exactly what's wrong with America right now. We have always had our problems but this country deserves to have a feeling of hope back about it. We deserve to have pride in what we do and what our country can accomplish. I'd love to see this change into a more global feeling, but that's generations away, considering what the rest of the world is still like. At least in my lifetime, I'd like to see presidents bring back a national pride in education and industry and exploration and frontierism. We fucking lost that along the way thanks to "real" Christians like fucking Bush. You don't have to be atheist to be dismayed by all this - you just have to be humanist, and you can still be that AND Christian. The reason I voted for him and a bunch of other people I know voted for Obama is because we thought he was our best shot at getting a foot in the door for the future, regardless of his religion.

[Ryantology]

I'm not here to argue Obama's policies. I am going to point out the above statement and also this:

Just so it's clear, my statement was something of a joke. Here we are, speculating whether he's a secret atheist, while the right wing nutjobs are certain that he's Muslim Brotherhood/Illuminati/antichrist.

[thesummerqueen]

I knew it was, but the best jokes contain grains of truth. It's convenient for a lot of people for Obama not to be Christian, depending on their agenda. You hit the nail on the head.

[Rayaan]

Obama may or may not be an atheist, but I don't care, though I'm slightly curious. He will probably say whatever most people want him to be.

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[PyroManiac]

His dad was one.

So I guess the possibility exists that he is.

Very true.