Sinners cannot understand the Bible!

[dry land fish]

Ok so since everyone feels I'm such a horrible terrible person over the US healthcare reform thread I have decided to talk about something else.

One of my co workers is a creationist. We were talking about the Bible and I said "I decided I thought Christianity was stupid when I read that a virgin had a baby. After that I couldn't get into it." She looked at me and said "Well I'm sure you'll make fun of me for saying this but my pastor says that sinners cannot understand the Bible and you can only know what it means after you are saved."

Ok...so if I'm saved then I'll understand how a virgin can have a baby? I'm thinking that won't change anything but I didn't say anything because I was at work and I didn't want to be unprofessional and basically make fun of her. Then she told me that she thought carbon dating was crap. Her pastor told the congregation that he buried his dead dog in his yard and then dug it up after it had been there a couple years and took the bones to a local college who did carbon dating. He had it dated and apparently he says that they said his dog was a few thousand years old. I felt sorry for her that she would believe such a story. This really concerns me that a pastor is lieing to his congregation and and that they are believing such an unbelievable story. No one is going to dig up their dead dog after it's been there for a couple of years. I mean animals are like our family and it would just be too hurtful to dig up a dead family member!!! Not to mention just sick. Then no one is going to tell anyone that a dog is a few thousand years old after doing carbon dating. He completely made it up!!!! Scary thought that someone so stupid can influence a large group of people.

Another co worker came into the conversation and asked me if I was a Christian. I thought all of my co workers knew I was a flaming Atheist. She told me I was going to go to hell and that hell was real and that she was going to pray for me because she loved me. I told her thanks for the concern but I wasn't going to ever become a Christian. She was just in shock that I said I didn't believe Hell existed. After that I swear if I didn't have someone come into my work for services who had on a shirt that said "bona fide Jesus Freak". They were looking at our museum and then asked me if we ever thought about teaching creation in our museum. I had a really bad feeling after that day of work. I went home and was upset because I feel sorry for my co worker for being so naive and I feel sorry for my other co worker because she's serioiusly going to worry herself and waste her time praying for me and it will all be for nothing. It also makes me feel terrible that preachers make up lies and try to make scientists look stupid and like we make things up and are quacks and tell their congregations things that are lies. It's dangerous and it's wrong to tell lies like that and they should feel horrible for brain washing people and turning their backs on science.

[Minimalist]

DLF, I do not think you are a horrible, terrible, person. I think you are wrong. There is a difference.



Anyway suggested answers.

To Person #1. "When you can come up with evidence (tangible evidence...not bible bullshit) to support the notion that man was created 6,000 years ago in the middle east then, (and only then) can you talk to me about creationism."


To Person #2. "Go fuck yourself and take jesus with you."

[theVOID]

What's more likely: the natural order was suspended, or a Jewish minx told a lie?

David Hume.

[fr0d0]

It's a fact that the bible only makes sense when you believe in God. As a skeptical unbeliever how can you accept any of it? It makes perfect sense.

AFIK radio carbon dating can be inaccurate, but that does not discount every other usage.

I wouldn't say the minister was "Lying" but of course your phrase is intended to be emotive. He's wrong IMO and misguided by creationist nonsense. As shocking as you may find this, no one is perfect.

[Giff]

It's a fact that the bible only makes sense when you believe in God. As a skeptical unbeliever how can you accept any of it? It makes perfect sense.

AFIK radio carbon dating can be inaccurate, but that does not discount every other usage.

I wouldn't say the minister was "Lying" but of course your phrase is intended to be emotive. He's wrong IMO and misguided by creationist nonsense. As shocking as you may find this, no one is perfect.

I personally can understand and agree with the philosophy that christianity have. That you should take care and help people, and to love and accept others. That's nothing I dissagree with.

As DLF said, I don't understand why atheist wouldn't be able to understand the bible. It is a book as any other book, and as I see it are people who are non-believers better at understand what the bible is all about. Many religious people close their eyes for those statements in the book that suggest that stoning your child is a good punishment and killing people from other religions is nothing wrong. Also homophobia is encouraged by the bible. But that is something some priests and christians are not agreeing with and saying it depends on how you inturputate the bible.

That is what I've heared, that you have interputate the bible and try to see what the image it describes is pointing at. Which I just see as a way of trying to cover up things which in todays society is moraly wrong.

I don't see why you have to be religious to understand what bible "really mean". In a way is it better that people interputate instead of believe that everyting n the bible is true. But then I don't understand why the bible is used in the first place. I don't think those who wrote it were writing everything in metaphores and meant something totally else when they wrote that men shouldn't sleep with another man and so on. Of course we don't know exactly what the authors believed, but I think according to how the bible is written and what people knew back then that they probably meant what they wrote. Otherwise could it easily been some people who wrote the bible on coffeebreakes jsut because they hadn't anything better to do.

I also wonder, how do someone define the word "sinner"?

[fr0d0]

Well when you believe in God through Jesus you understand that everything in the OT relates to the what Jesus said. So to understand what was said you have to look at it in perspective, and not alone. I know from personal experience that it is impossible to make sense of it out of context, that is, without understanding the whole thing. Everything in the Bible is written for the purpose of understanding God, and nothing else. It's historicity is entirely irrelevant to this point.

The bible is absolutely 100% right on morality. It's the manual for morality. Whatever moral conclusions people arrive at is already in the bible. You can do it the hard way or the easy way .

Christians are doing the opposite to closing their eyes to the facts. Unbelievers can do no other because they're reading with prejudice.

[Retorth]

Such contradictions you make...

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There are so many immoral acts in the bible I can't believe you call it a manual for morality...

Whatever moral conclusions people arrive at is already in the bible.

Whatever moral conclusions people arrive at was written by people into the book called the bible. Nothing to do with god still...

[fr0d0]

Well we (Christians) call it 'inspired'.
If you see contradictions and I don't you conclude either that I am mistaken or that I see it differently than you. The logic is that you will not see it without believing, so you fulfil the logic.

[Retorth]

So you're saying you have to believe in order to be able to interpret the book correctly. I'm saying it is what it is...a book filled with contradictions and immoral acts.

The list of contradictions is so long, yet you refuse to see them. I don't think "inspired" is what it is...more of "blinded by faith"...that is very dangerous as well because you can be led on so easily.

[fr0d0]

I don't 'refuse'. I would love to see a successful claim of contradiction but there are none. If you don't believe it won't make sense to you, you fulfil the logic.