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RE: Why is faith important?
February 28, 2013 at 12:57 pm
(February 28, 2013 at 12:46 pm)ronedee Wrote: (February 28, 2013 at 12:45 pm)EGross Wrote: Man is flawed. You cannot trust what man thinks. You can only trust what the holy spirit tells you.
And how does the Holy Spirit tell you? Unless you are like the Son of Sam where you are hearing voices to tell you to do things, then you are really only hearing your own inclinations in your head. Or you are hearing the voices of people you trust in your head that are being reinterpreted.
Unless you really believe that you have a special power that is unique, which is to have spirits speak to you in your waking hours that tell you true things. With no one to validate that they are coming from anything but yourself, which is elevating yourself as God, and serving yourself, and considering your own thoughts as God's.
That isn't faith. But there is a psychological term for it.
Here let me help you: When one thinks about things important, one deduces and even gets answers sometimes.
Make sure you do this before walking across a busy street!
So you are saying that you trust your own judement and ability to reason to know what is true, and that truth is based on previous decisions of what is truth.
So what you are admitting is that the divine truth of the holy spirit is really your own judgement and reason expressing into this reality.
In short, you are the source of your own truth.
“I've done everything the Bible says — even the stuff that contradicts the other stuff!"— Ned Flanders
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RE: Why is faith important?
February 28, 2013 at 1:02 pm
(This post was last modified: February 28, 2013 at 1:02 pm by Faith No More.)
(February 28, 2013 at 12:18 pm)ronedee Wrote: Anything man is involved in is tainted and a lie. We can make anything to suit our views or needs.
Umm...wasn't man instrumental in the origins, interpretation, and spreading of your religion?
Even if the open windows of science at first make us shiver after the cozy indoor warmth of traditional humanizing myths, in the end the fresh air brings vigor, and the great spaces have a splendor of their own - Bertrand Russell
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RE: Why is faith important?
February 28, 2013 at 1:09 pm
Quote:The real teacher is the Holy Spirit.
Evidence that your holy spirit is real?
Didn't think so.
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RE: Why is faith important?
February 28, 2013 at 1:33 pm
(This post was last modified: February 28, 2013 at 1:34 pm by EGross.)
And God told Moses: "Do not eat the following foods..."
And Jesus said "Do not think that I have come to destroy the Law..."
Obviously Christianity was a bit of a do-over and all of the old stuff is moot...
...Unless they like the old bits, like gay is bad and death penalty is good and other fun things!
Unless Ronedee also considers the OT valid, which is fine. Or cancelled, which is also fine. But a bit of this and a bit of that? And who gets to decide? Certainly not the Holy Spirit who will say "You leave me out of this!"
“I've done everything the Bible says — even the stuff that contradicts the other stuff!"— Ned Flanders
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RE: Why is faith important?
February 28, 2013 at 3:55 pm
(This post was last modified: February 28, 2013 at 4:09 pm by ronedee.)
(February 28, 2013 at 12:57 pm)EGross Wrote: So you are saying that you trust your own judement and ability to reason to know what is true, and that truth is based on previous decisions of what is truth.
So what you are admitting is that the divine truth of the holy spirit is really your own judgement and reason expressing into this reality.
In short, you are the source of your own truth.
No, the Holy Spirits inspiration... and using Jesus' Words as dicernment.
Jesus is our measuring device.
(February 28, 2013 at 1:33 pm)EGross Wrote: And God told Moses: "Do not eat the following foods..."
And Jesus said "Do not think that I have come to destroy the Law..."
Obviously Christianity was a bit of a do-over and all of the old stuff is moot...
...Unless they like the old bits, like gay is bad and death penalty is good and other fun things!
Unless Ronedee also considers the OT valid, which is fine. Or cancelled, which is also fine. But a bit of this and a bit of that? And who gets to decide? Certainly not the Holy Spirit who will say "You leave me out of this!"
Lets get it right!
And Jesus said "Do not think that I have come to destroy the Law...[or the writings of the prophets, but to fulfill them"
ful·fill
/fo͝olˈfil/Verb
1.Bring to completion or reality; achieve or realize (something desired, promised, or predicted)................"completion" being key here!
---------------------------------------
Jesus (also) answered, "It is written: 'Man does not live on bread alone, but on every word that comes from the *mouth of God.'"
* see ten commandments
Think whatever you want boys, but God hasn't really weighed in on anything "first hand" since that tablet was carved!
Do I believe God has inspired the words in the bible? Yes. But men were involved....and you know how I feel about that!
Quis ut Deus?
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RE: Why is faith important?
February 28, 2013 at 4:31 pm
Ok, so God didn't say those words, men just interpreted God's word based on their own personal inspiration.
Kind of makes it all subjective. Since there is no evidence that God ever spoke to man, or could, since the ontly stories that say so are from dead imperfect men based on their own imperfect understanding.
As for the "fulfill" part, given that Jesus didn't have a Jewish father, that was pretty much an impossible mission anyhow.
“I've done everything the Bible says — even the stuff that contradicts the other stuff!"— Ned Flanders
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RE: Why is faith important?
February 28, 2013 at 8:19 pm
@ ronedee
The Holy Spirit described in the Bible tells me that the Bible which describes the Holy Spirit is true.
The Holy Spirit is the con man's more elaborate circular reasoning trick. It's slightly above "the Bible says it's true, therefore, the Bible is true". Also, you say that man is fallible. It was men over the centuries that created, copied & preserved the Bible. What makes you think there's going to be truth in that given that your belief is that man taints things?
"It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it" ~ Aristotle
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RE: Why is faith important?
February 28, 2013 at 11:20 pm
(February 27, 2013 at 11:22 pm)Severan Wrote: "The only faith that has been required from us is the faith of a mustard seed. Meaning we just need the tinest amount to Have God open the flood gates of heaven for us."
I'm sorry. A mustard seed? You've got to be joking me. Are you saying that you have the faith that the mustard seed has, or the faith the size of a mustard seed? I just want to clear things up.
Mat 17:20 So Jesus said to them, “Because of your unbelief;[d] for assuredly, I say to you, if you have faith as a mustard seed, you will say to this mountain, ‘Move from here to there,’ and it will move; and nothing will be impossible for you. 21 However, this kind does not go out except by prayer and fasting.”[e]
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RE: Why is faith important?
February 28, 2013 at 11:29 pm
(February 28, 2013 at 11:20 pm)Drich Wrote: Mat 17:20 So Jesus said to them, “Because of your unbelief;[d] for assuredly, I say to you, if you have faith as a mustard seed, you will say to this mountain, ‘Move from here to there,’ and it will move; and nothing will be impossible for you. 21 However, this kind does not go out except by prayer and fasting.”[e]
I'm a little confused on this part actually. In Jesus' example, is he giving a hyperbole for purposes of example? If you have faith, then prayer and fast a bit, can one appeal for magical things like mountains moving positions to happen? Or are these appeals limited to natural laws?
Seems that sort of thing would be in the news.
If you believe it, question it. If you question it, get an answer. If you have an answer, does that answer satisfy reality? Does it satisfy you? Probably not. For no one else will agree with you, not really.
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RE: Why is faith important?
February 28, 2013 at 11:38 pm
(This post was last modified: February 28, 2013 at 11:54 pm by Drich.)
(February 27, 2013 at 11:27 pm)Minimalist Wrote: Why didn't your fucking god know that there were seeds smaller than a mustard seed? He did, but the question is did those in whom He was speaking know their was a seed smaller than a mustard seed? If He said the "teft" seed was the smallest would anyone know what He was talking about?
Quote:For that matter, why does he seem to think that mustard seeds grow into "trees?"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parable_of_...stard_Seed
Black mustard seeds grow into plants that are 9ft tall, Greeks classified plants on how the grew and according to how tall they grew. Any plant over the average height of a man was a tree. Christ was speaking to Ancient Hebrews and greeks, so He used their terms.
Quote:You'd think a god would be better versed on this shit, wouldn't you?
God was. But do you think those He was speaking to shared His knowledge?
(February 27, 2013 at 11:32 pm)Question Mark Wrote: I'm not sure what you're defining as faith.
Heb 11:1 Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.
Quote:Faith by definition is belief without evidence. If you had evidence, then you'd surely believe on evidence, not on faith?
God did not say He would deny us evidence the entire time we lived this life. All the faith that is required is to approach god as He has instructed. Then "faith" is no longer needed. For after one Ask, Seeks, and Knocks as He has Commanded then an on going interaction with God picks up where the faith of a mustard seed leaves off.
(February 28, 2013 at 12:08 am)Question Mark Wrote: (February 27, 2013 at 11:58 pm)genkaus Wrote: That's what he means - when evidence is not there.
Well I'd like to know what sort of things, other than god, he would take on faith.
I took a 25K dollar loan on faith from a stranger to start a business.
(February 28, 2013 at 11:29 pm)Question Mark Wrote: (February 28, 2013 at 11:20 pm)Drich Wrote: Mat 17:20 So Jesus said to them, “Because of your unbelief;[d] for assuredly, I say to you, if you have faith as a mustard seed, you will say to this mountain, ‘Move from here to there,’ and it will move; and nothing will be impossible for you. 21 However, this kind does not go out except by prayer and fasting.”[e]
I'm a little confused on this part actually. In Jesus' example, is he giving a hyperbole for purposes of example? If you have faith, then prayer and fast a bit, can one appeal for magical things like mountains moving positions to happen? Or are these appeals limited to natural laws?
Seems that sort of thing would be in the news.
The word in the greek for mountain is Oros. It means an insurmountable obstical. often referred to/translated as a mountain.(way before climbing gear. These guys did not scale mountains for fun.) To move mountain with faith in the context of this story is to over come that in which you could not previously over come with out the direct Help of God.
Like for instance some of you claim you can not believe in God with out evidence. Christ is saying if you simply ask with the smallest measure of faith, God will move the obstical standing in your way. Not just move it a little bit, but pick it up and throw it into the sea.
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