Is belief in God a choice

[MetalVampire]

I think it could be a choice, if you have enough evidence to back up what your saying, you might be able to prove god doesn't exist, and change peoples minds.
Like if a Christian really looked into it, they might be able to see how much of a fairy story it is, if they wanted to. Most would just blank it out though, wouldn't want to believe that there isn't a god, and wouldn't be able to accept it.
so in that sense, it is like a choice.
But if you don't believe in god, i don't think you could just choose to believe, because It doesn't make sense, I wouldn't in a million years be able to believe it, because it sounds like the ramblings of someone on LSD

[Edwardo Piet]

Wow mega dodge! OK you refuse to discuss it. I get it. I shan't bother with you any further then.

Wow - I have to say you're the most narrow minded and stubborn person I've ever met. Your childish blanking is the epitome of ignorance.

Have a nice day.

No, you are failing to discuss it. I'm happy to discuss if you're willing to evidence your views. If you're just going to say that it only makes sense to you and other Christians, where's the discussion?

Wow - I have to say you're the most narrow minded and stubborn person I've ever met. Your childish blanking is the epitome of ignorance.

Ever? Well you've really done your research(!) So I'm inclinced to believe you (!) Lmfao.

I expect evidence, and with evidence I will beleive. You can't get any more open minded than that without your brains dropping out.

- and I said in my above post that when I ask this question it is not rhetorical. I seriously want to know your answer, but you completely ignored me.

I really want to know: How are we going to discuss this if you're unwilling to evidence your position and you're just going to state how it only makes sense to you, and other Christians? Where's the discussion there? It's just you asserting that it makes sense to you but not us atheists! In which case, how do we discuss?!

You have to evidence why it's any different to any other belief. Otherwise how are we going to discuss?

And if you're going to just assert that it only makes sense to you and other Christians, and you're not willing to actually backup your postion at all with evidence, then that's close-minded if anything is! You call that a discussion?!

@ MetalVampire, I would agree that it's a 'choice' to disbelieve in that sense. But if it's not voluntary in any way, I wouldn't say it's a choice. Because whether you 'look into it' or not is compelled by other things, and then when you do 'look into it', you still may or may not be convinced.

- It's just that to call an involuntary choice a choice, it seems kind of oxymoronic...it seems like a contradiction. So it may be a choice 'in that sense', but then 'that sense' isn't exactly a 'choice' by definition I would think...because I would think a 'choice' would have to be voluntary, otherwise perhaps it's just something like, say - an opportunity, at best?

I wouldn't draw a distinction between disbelief being more of a mater of choice than belief, it's an interesting thought though. I would think that an atheist has just as much 'choice' 'in that sense' to 'look into' belief in God...it's just I don't think we'd bother or get anywhere with it, lol.

EvF

[Violet]

How can he read your posts daily, EvF, and still be religious? I know i couldn't do it...

[Edwardo Piet]

Really? Haha...what a compliment lol!

I wish I could be more eloquent actually, although I do think my problem is specifically more with being concise...

EvF

[fr0d0]

No, you are failing to discuss it. I'm happy to discuss if you're willing to evidence your views. If you're just going to say that it only makes sense to you and other Christians, where's the discussion?

you're happy to discuss it if I provide what I have stated very many times is not possible. You want me to discuss choice but not as part of my belief!? To me this directly equates to a refusal to discuss the subject. I'd love to hear how you possibly think it couldn't.

- and I said in my above post that when I ask this question it is not rhetorical. I seriously want to know your answer, but you completely ignored me.

Let me get this straight then... you want me to answer the question of evidence. You don't remember how very many frikkin times I've answered that question for you to blandly repeat the exact same question over and over again in response, with no retort, ad infinitum:

I really want to know: How are we going to discuss this if you're unwilling to evidence your position and you're just going to state how it only makes sense to you, and other Christians? Where's the discussion there? It's just you asserting that it makes sense to you but not us atheists! In which case, how do we discuss?!

You have to evidence why it's any different to any other belief. Otherwise how are we going to discuss?

And if you're going to just assert that it only makes sense to you and other Christians, and you're not willing to actually backup your postion at all with evidence, then that's close-minded if anything is! You call that a discussion?!

All I see above is a bland repetitious demand for evidence, yet again. THIS IS FUCKING BORING EVIE. You can't discuss choice... understand how I can say there is a choice because you can't step out of your tiny mind and listen to another POV for a change. It's like you're afraid that by listening and trying to understand it'll be seen as some kind of weakness in your position, but what it actually shows is the exact opposite.. that you're frightened to even consider anything outside your comfort zone because you have that weak a grasp on it.

I could sum up your entire argument in one simple statement. There's no need for such a stream of meaningless waffle that pours from your fingers.

Evie's statement of belief: "There is no choice of belief because the dictionary definition of belief is wrong: Belief is only possible through evidence."

Now stick that in your sig and SHUT THE FUK UP.

---

How can he read your posts daily, EvF, and still be religious? I know i couldn't do it...

That's because you're a mindless twat Saerules.

---

I think it could be a choice, if you have enough evidence to back up what your saying, you might be able to prove god doesn't exist, and change peoples minds.
Like if a Christian really looked into it, they might be able to see how much of a fairy story it is, if they wanted to. Most would just blank it out though, wouldn't want to believe that there isn't a god, and wouldn't be able to accept it.
so in that sense, it is like a choice.
But if you don't believe in god, i don't think you could just choose to believe, because It doesn't make sense, I wouldn't in a million years be able to believe it, because it sounds like the ramblings of someone on LSD

What evidence - type of evidence would that be then MV? God cannot be proven to exist, that's how God is defined. You may call that bullshit, or claim what is the best argument of non believers: that some fairytale of science will come along with it's magic wand and prove it some day. The intelligent people understand the concept of a non existent God. Stupid people believe in magic like the science theory.

So I agree with you 100%. Belief with evidence makes no sense whatsoever. Belief without evidence is sorta the point.

[LukeMC]

How can he read your posts daily, EvF, and still be religious? I know i couldn't do it...

That's because you're a mindless twat Saerules.

ROFL. As much as I respect Saerules and disagree with you calling her a mindless twat... this made me laugh. I do not know why.

As far as the EvidenceVsFr0d0 debate goes, am I right in remebering that fr0d0's position is that there can be no empirical evidence for God and therefore logic is the only way to imply God's existence? Am I right fr0d0, or have I completely misrepresented everything you stand for in life?

[Rhizomorph13]

Everyone,

I just found this at the Funk and Wagnell site:

Belief:
a mental attitude of acceptance or assent toward a proposition without the full intellectual knowledge required to guarantee its truth. Believing is either an intellectual judgment or, as the 18th-century Scottish Skeptic David Hume maintained, a special sort of feeling with overtones that differ from those of disbelief. Beliefs have been distinguished according to their degree of certainty: a surmise or suspicion, an opinion, or a conviction. Belief becomes knowledge only when the truth of a proposition becomes evident to the believer. Belief in someone or something is basically different from belief that a proposition is true.

This leads me to the idea that belief is a spectrum phenomena that includes chosen as well as NOT chosen(De Facto) beliefs. When this thread started I thought belief was the result of being convinced but this definition has changed my mind. My own belief in the soul and reincarnation would only rate as a suspicion on the belief spectrum.

SO you don't "believe" in a truck bearing down on you; you have full "knowledge" that the truck will hit you. It is a purely gnostic event whereas belief is something that falls between gnostic and agnostic.

Rhizo

[Violet]

How can he read your posts daily, EvF, and still be religious? I know i couldn't do it...

That's because you're a mindless twat Saerules.

ROFL. As much as I respect Saerules and disagree with you calling her a mindless twat... this made me laugh. I do not know why.

As far as the EvidenceVsFr0d0 debate goes, am I right in remebering that fr0d0's position is that there can be no empirical evidence for God and therefore logic is the only way to imply God's existence? Am I right fr0d0, or have I completely misrepresented everything you stand for in life?

I don't either But I personally just raise my eyebrows at that insult, some of them are truly funny.

[fr0d0]

ROFL. As much as I respect Saerules and disagree with you calling her a mindless twat... this made me laugh. I do not know why.

May God strike me down

As far as the EvidenceVsFr0d0 debate goes, am I right in remebering that fr0d0's position is that there can be no empirical evidence for God and therefore logic is the only way to imply God's existence? Am I right fr0d0, or have I completely misrepresented everything you stand for in life?

No goddammit you got it exactly right! Kill me now.

[Violet]

ROFL. As much as I respect Saerules and disagree with you calling her a mindless twat... this made me laugh. I do not know why.

May God strike me down

As far as the EvidenceVsFr0d0 debate goes, am I right in remebering that fr0d0's position is that there can be no empirical evidence for God and therefore logic is the only way to imply God's existence? Am I right fr0d0, or have I completely misrepresented everything you stand for in life?

No goddammit you got it exactly right! Kill me now.

Well... alright... how would you like to go? Any last words?