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RE: Is belief in God a choice
September 3, 2009 at 12:44 am
The basic problem with an argument based on faith is the simple fact that such an argument cannot be specific to that which the the proponent of the argument is trying to prove. That is, faith can be used to argue anything, one can say "I have faith that Santa exists, unicorns exist, I can fly, god talks to me, Jodie Foster will marry me if I kill the President, I will get 72 virgins in heaven if I fly an airplane into a building, Jesus loves me..." On and fucking on.
I don't care how strong your belief is -- it does not PROVE anything. No matter how much you believe in some irrational bullshit there is some fanatic out there somewhere who can demonstrate that he can out-believe you.
A mind is a terrible thing to waste -- don't pollute it with bullshit.
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RE: Is belief in God a choice
September 3, 2009 at 12:50 am
Exactly, and therefore faith can be discounted as lunacy, and the only people who have it are people who have been brainwashed (did not choose).
Please give me a home where cloud buffalo roam
Where the dear and the strangers can play
Where sometimes is heard a discouraging word
But the skies are not stormy all day
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RE: Is belief in God a choice
September 3, 2009 at 3:34 am
Belief in god isn't a choice in the same sense schizophrenia isn't a choice, they're both delusions.
The plus side is Religious belief is one from which you can recover.
.
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RE: Is belief in God a choice
September 3, 2009 at 3:28 pm
(This post was last modified: September 3, 2009 at 3:31 pm by Kyuuketsuki.)
(September 2, 2009 at 3:50 am)fr0d0 Wrote: Wow - I have to say you're the most narrow minded and stubborn person I've ever met. Your childish blanking is the epitome of ignorance.
Fuck me, he's taken my crown!
Kyu
p.s. You're the one dodging!
(September 2, 2009 at 3:26 pm)fr0d0 Wrote: you're happy to discuss it if I provide what I have stated very many times is not possible. You want me to discuss choice but not as part of my belief!? To me this directly equates to a refusal to discuss the subject. I'd love to hear how you possibly think it couldn't.
What you have CLAIMED is not possible but a claim utterly unsupported by evidence or logic.
Kyu
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RE: Is belief in God a choice
September 4, 2009 at 1:30 pm
I am far too lazy to read the whole of this thread so forgive me if I duplicate some one elses point.
In answer to the question 'is belief in God a choice?' I would say that for most cultures you have to choose NOT to believe, belief is the default, the easy way.
My children go to a church of England school where they are taught that jesus was our saviour as FACT.
I was fuming when I heard that.
My elder two have recovered from the initial brainwashing but my young son is still in its insidious embrace.
Where choice really comes in with respect to belief is when you change religions from your cultural one.
You can fix ignorance, you can't fix stupid.
Tinkety Tonk and down with the Nazis.
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RE: Is belief in God a choice
September 4, 2009 at 2:02 pm
How is belief the default? You honestly think that if you let children grow up without any understanding of religion or god, they would still believe?
God has to be taught, Christianity has to be taught. Non-belief is the default position of everything and anything (be it child, flower, or tree) because none of these things have any idea what God is, so they cannot possibly believe in them.
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RE: Is belief in God a choice
September 4, 2009 at 2:04 pm
A baby or small child is an atheist in the same sense a rock is. They don't believe because they've never even heard of the whole idea of such a superbeing as a "God" - they can't, they're too young. Just as a rock can't (in that case cos it's a rock).
EvF
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RE: Is belief in God a choice
September 4, 2009 at 2:43 pm
(September 4, 2009 at 1:30 pm)downbeatplumb Wrote: In answer to the question 'is belief in God a choice?' I would say that for most cultures you have to choose NOT to believe, belief is the default, the easy way.
I see what you're saying but my point is that you don't just decide, "I think I will stop believing in God today" ... what you do is choose (or adopt) a philosophy and it is THAT that leads you to your belief or disbelief ... for me it was science (or rather humanism). By the same token I can't decide to believe because to do so would mean dropping being a humanist and since that is my entire basis for existence it would be like switching my brain off.
(September 4, 2009 at 1:30 pm)downbeatplumb Wrote: My children go to a church of England school where they are taught that jesus was our saviour as FACT. I was fuming when I heard that.
Likewise when my then 8 year old came home and proudly announced she knew who the first two people were ... grrr!
(September 4, 2009 at 1:30 pm)downbeatplumb Wrote: My elder two have recovered from the initial brainwashing but my young son is still in its insidious embrace. Where choice really comes in with respect to belief is when you change religions from your cultural one.
Mine are now both extremely cynical about religion but, unlike me, don't mind theists.
Kyu
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RE: Is belief in God a choice
September 4, 2009 at 3:02 pm
Quote:Likewise when my then 8 year old came home and proudly announced she knew who the first two people were ... grrr!
That's horrible O.O They taught her that in school?!
Please give me a home where cloud buffalo roam
Where the dear and the strangers can play
Where sometimes is heard a discouraging word
But the skies are not stormy all day
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RE: Is belief in God a choice
September 4, 2009 at 5:10 pm
(September 4, 2009 at 3:02 pm)Saerules Wrote: Quote:Likewise when my then 8 year old came home and proudly announced she knew who the first two people were ... grrr!
That's horrible O.O They taught her that in school?!
Yeah! The worst thing is having to explain that the teacher (who they absolutely trust at that age) is wrong ... for a few seconds you see a look in their eyes as they have to try and reframe because some arsehole decided she was going to teach fantasy as fact.
I'm not above teaching my kids about the various things people believe but I try to be objective, I stress that I don't believe, that others do, that there are many beliefs and it is up to them to decide which is the correct belief for them. Obviously I want them to be rational but I try to teach them all sides as far as is practicable but what gets me is these people simply DON'T ... they've decided they are right and will ignore other views and/or twist everything to suit their warped worldview.
Kyu
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