How do you prove your religion/holy books were not corrupted.

[Mystic]

Theistic religions either claim humanity needs religion or it's in the benefit of humanity to have religion.
As either is the case, God(s) would send religion to humanity.

If this is true, you would have religion before your own "holy book" or "religion".

But those either became lost or corrupted over time.

If God allows his religion to be corrupted in the past, what makes you sure it's not corrupted now?

Stating things like "well Jesus or Mohammad sealed the revelations because the revelation says so, therefore the last revelation needs to be protected" is circular reasoning.

Saying things like "the revelation says it would be protected" is also circular reasoning.

The reason is that could have been corrupted and be a fabrication.

How do you know your religion hasn't been corrupted? Your holy book hasn't been corrupted?

[LastPoet]

Whould it be hard to god just to... show itself?

[ronedee]

How do you know your religion hasn't been corrupted? Your holy book hasn't been corrupted?

But, isn't there a "running theme" with God? And I'm talking Christian here. "GOD IS A LIVING GOD". There is nothing circular about Jesus and His Word!

It's man's interpetation of God that is corrupted, and chasing his tail. We all deny in [some form] what God has made self-evident to us.

LIFE, LOVE, TRUTH, HAPPINESS.....in exchange for FREEDOM(S)!

Freedom used to mean something important to a slave. Now? It means whatever "I WANT TO DO, SAY, ACT or BELIEVE".

The main issue with Anti's? You want God to prove Himself to you! Well...Free Will, (aka Freedom) means we don't need any proof!

And here's the interesting part: I have free will to believe, you have free will not to believe!

Proof means nothing to either, a true believer, or a true non-believer. Just as I'm sure you would indeed prostrate yourself if He did show-up!?

There is nothing "I, or anyone else" can say, do, or scribe in our bellies..... that will change someones heart!

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God says...."HERE I AM, in the coos of a new born child, in the majestic mountains, in a beautiful sunrise at dawn, on a peaceful lake at dusk, in the vastness of the night sky....
I'm in everything that is alive and GOOD! I'm deep down in the tiny warm spot of your hearts....trying to get you to LOVE ME."

"Because...EVERYTHING I HAVE WILL BE YOURS.....IF ONLY YOU BELIEVE IN ME."

...."and I hid my face from them....but for a moment."

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[Darkstar]

The main issue with Anti's? You want God to prove Himself to you! Well...Free Will, (aka Freedom) means we don't need any proof!

And here's the interesting part: I have free will to believe, you have free will not to believe!

Not believing isn't a decision. I didn't wake up one day and say "I don't feel like believing in god anymore", but rather "I don't believe in god anymore". Sure, I could try to deliberately delude myself, but...

Proof means nothing to either, a true believer, or a true non-believer.

Depends on where you set the bar for proof. God has the advantage because he is omnipotent and could prove himself to anyone if he actually existed.

Just as I'm sure you would indeed prostrate yourself if He did show-up!?

Well, if it's between that and burning forever...

There is nothing "I, or anyone else" can say, do, or scribe in our bellies..... that will change someones heart!

Which is why we asked god to help...but either he doesn't care if we believe, or he doesn't exist.

God says...."HERE I AM, in the coos of a new born child, in the majestic mountains, in a beautiful sunrise at dawn, on a peaceful lake at dusk, in the vastness of the night sky....
I'm in everything that is alive and GOOD! I'm deep down in the tiny warm spot of your hearts....trying to get you to LOVE ME."

So that's where your standard of proof is. Kind of had a hunch abou that.

...."and I hid my face from them....but for a moment."

A moment of god time, maybe. When I last checked, 2000+ years was not a moment, nor was it "soon".

---

Revelation 22:20
He who testifies to these things says, “Yes, I am coming soon.”

Amen. Come, Lord Jesus.

---

[ronedee]

[Depends on where you set the bar for proof. God has the advantage because he is omnipotent and could prove himself to anyone if he actually existed.

Amen. Come, Lord Jesus.

---

Riddle me this batman.....What would you rather have:

Free Will, or to be under God's rule?

And please don't answer with a question...its unintelligent!

[Darkstar]

Riddle me this batman.....What would you rather have:

Free Will, or to be under God's rule?

Free will. Yet, somehow, even those who knew god existed would constantly worship other gods for no obvious reason. God needn't impose such brutal punishment for disobedience. Maybe if he didn't, people would actually have a choice. Or, perhaps, he could simply lie, and say there was no punishment for not following him, considering that is basically what he is doing to all atheists right now.

And please don't answer with a question...its unintelligent!

I hope asking something now isn't considered answering with a question...

Since you "know" god exists, have you lost your free will? And if not, why would we?

[EGross]

As a kid, I had tried to catch Santa in the middle of the night. He never showed himself, but the toys showed up. Using this same logic, Santa is therefore real, for the creations required a creator, and since he has never showed imself, obviously Santa is true. Bwcause if he showed himself, then there would be no more mystery and you would always be good!

[ronedee]

Since you "know" god exists, have you lost your free will? And if not, why would we?

Here's God's word from the OT to Adam & Eve: "If you sin, you will surely die."

Sounds like He gave us a choice, didn't He? But...we knew better!

And because we kept sinning...we kept dying! Starting to make sense?

Then enters Jesus! He needed to save us from this vicious circle of sin & death. And put us right with the Father.

Jesus said: Ok! "Here's how you LIVE and attain ETERNAL LIFE!"

Which included Him, "to become sin, and put sin to death on the cross." And herein lies the great mystery that most can't wrap their heads around! But it's quite simple.
Death was only meant for sinners! NOT the one without sin! It's like the door flew open brother!! Jesus broke God's curse against man! *(see opening sentence.)

And, IF you believe, and have understanding: God also paid the price of sin and death! As He and His Son are "ONE IN THE SAME!"

In other.... simpler words: "God reconciled Himself with man".

So....This is not a question of me losing my free will....it's attaining enlightenment, and the answer to my/our Eternal Life!

[Darkstar]

So....This is not a question of me losing my free will....it's attaining enlightenment, and the answer to my/our Eternal Life!

So...why do we lose free will if god proves himslef to exist, then?

Riddle me this batman.....What would you rather have:

Free Will, or to be under God's rule?

I guess you didn't say it was mutually exclusive, but if it is mutually exclusive, you wouldn't be living under god's rule (because you have free will) and thus proof of god wouldn't necessitate everyone living under god's direct rule. He's omnipotent and omniscent; you would think he could figure something out...

[CapnAwesome]

The main issue with Anti's? You want God to prove Himself to you! Well...Free Will, (aka Freedom) means we don't need any proof!

And here's the interesting part: I have free will to believe, you have free will not to believe!

Congratulations on not making any sense. God appearing wouldn't have anything to do with free will. If God appeared and proclaimed that everybody should worship him, we'd all still be free to do it or not. So saying that God appearing somehow robs us of the chance to not believe in him (and thus burn eternally) is a nonsensical argument. I fail to see any reason why God would hide himself.