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RE: Atheists; what do you base your morals on?
March 16, 2013 at 11:33 pm
(This post was last modified: March 16, 2013 at 11:33 pm by jstrodel.)
Well, I wouldn't accept those beliefs, I suppose some Christians would. But you did just accept the authoritarian statement I attributed to you.
Most Christians in America are moderate republicans to moderate democrats. Few are really theocrats.
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RE: Atheists; what do you base your morals on?
March 16, 2013 at 11:56 pm
There are enough of you who are theocrats, and they currently dominate the Republican party. And 'moderate' Christians enable them.
And, what do I care about a consummate authoritarian's opinion about how authoritarian mine is?
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RE: Atheists; what do you base your morals on?
March 17, 2013 at 12:03 am
You wouldn't care about the beliefs of people who disagree with you if you were an authoritarian.
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RE: Atheists; what do you base your morals on?
March 17, 2013 at 12:32 am
Most likely Christianity will continue to slide more and more into the dust bin of history as the increase in knowledge and direction of popular culture makes literal claims for any religion less and less tenable. Whatever the number of Christians may be today the day is coming when you will probably be more and more marginalized. It will become increasingly difficult to keep your children in the church no matter how much you try to isolate them from the wider world.
My advice to you is to be thankful you live in a country where the protection for all to practice their religion as they please is so deeply ingrained in the government. As doing so becomes more and more quaint you can at least be sure no one will interfere with you. Frankly even letting you closet your children and home school them for indoctrination instead of giving them a real real education probably borders on child abuse.
What a pity it is that you simply will not allow yourselves to evolve in your faith. Like said before lots of real scientists are Christians. Many people have found it possible to integrate their faith with science and to give up the remnants of bigotry and oppression which contaminate the bible as relics of the time in which it was written. If only you could stretch yourself a little there would be no conflict. You could give your kids a grounding in a more enlightened form of faith which would not be too fragile to survive in public schools. You could give them a foundation that would allow them to hold their heads high in the wider community.
But you won't budge. You'd rather force a fracture of the social contract we have which protects all religious faith equally in order to promote an alternative to secular public life. Sad for you really.
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RE: Atheists; what do you base your morals on?
March 17, 2013 at 1:01 am
I know I'm late to this one, although I really tried. I got to page 18 and said "fuck it".
Jim Jefferies, mere comedian, says it best: "Try not to be a cunt".
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RE: Atheists; what do you base your morals on?
March 17, 2013 at 3:17 am
(March 16, 2013 at 10:18 pm)jstrodel Wrote: You think that giving people freedom about where to spend their tax dollars is the tyranny of the majority? Can you put that in formal logic?
Sure.
Creationism = religious belief.
Teaching Creationism in public schools (funded by tax dollars) = establishment of religion.
Science =/= a religion.
Teaching science in public schools =/= establishment of religion.
I hope that's clear. I can't make it any simpler.
Atheist Forums Hall of Shame:
"The trinity can be equated to having your cake and eating it too."
... -Lucent, trying to defend the Trinity concept
"(Yahweh's) actions are good because (Yahweh) is the ultimate standard of goodness. That’s not begging the question"
... -Statler Waldorf, Christian apologist
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RE: Atheists; what do you base your morals on?
March 17, 2013 at 4:11 pm
(This post was last modified: March 17, 2013 at 4:17 pm by jstrodel.)
(March 17, 2013 at 12:32 am)whateverist Wrote: Most likely Christianity will continue to slide more and more into the dust bin of history as the increase in knowledge and direction of popular culture makes literal claims for any religion less and less tenable. Whatever the number of Christians may be today the day is coming when you will probably be more and more marginalized. It will become increasingly difficult to keep your children in the church no matter how much you try to isolate them from the wider world.
My advice to you is to be thankful you live in a country where the protection for all to practice their religion as they please is so deeply ingrained in the government. As doing so becomes more and more quaint you can at least be sure no one will interfere with you. Frankly even letting you closet your children and home school them for indoctrination instead of giving them a real real education probably borders on child abuse.
What a pity it is that you simply will not allow yourselves to evolve in your faith. Like said before lots of real scientists are Christians. Many people have found it possible to integrate their faith with science and to give up the remnants of bigotry and oppression which contaminate the bible as relics of the time in which it was written. If only you could stretch yourself a little there would be no conflict. You could give your kids a grounding in a more enlightened form of faith which would not be too fragile to survive in public schools. You could give them a foundation that would allow them to hold their heads high in the wider community.
But you won't budge. You'd rather force a fracture of the social contract we have which protects all religious faith equally in order to promote an alternative to secular public life. Sad for you really.
Who says I am against science? I am planing a career out in academia right now. I am not against science, I am against nationalistic indoctrination.
What if you are wrong about your beliefs? Doesn't it scare you that you are on the wrong side of the most important question in history? How sure are you that I am lying or crazy and I havn't seen God 50 or 100 times like I promise that I have (along with millions of others)? What if you are wrong?
(March 17, 2013 at 3:17 am)DeistPaladin Wrote: (March 16, 2013 at 10:18 pm)jstrodel Wrote: You think that giving people freedom about where to spend their tax dollars is the tyranny of the majority? Can you put that in formal logic?
Sure.
Creationism = religious belief.
Teaching Creationism in public schools (funded by tax dollars) = establishment of religion.
Science =/= a religion.
Teaching science in public schools =/= establishment of religion.
I hope that's clear. I can't make it any simpler.
Who said anything about creationism? I am not a creationist, and that isn't what I am advocating.
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RE: Atheists; what do you base your morals on?
March 17, 2013 at 5:35 pm
(March 17, 2013 at 4:11 pm)jstrodel Wrote: I am against nationalistic indoctrination.
Do you mean "naturalistic indoctrination"?
Atheist Forums Hall of Shame:
"The trinity can be equated to having your cake and eating it too."
... -Lucent, trying to defend the Trinity concept
"(Yahweh's) actions are good because (Yahweh) is the ultimate standard of goodness. That’s not begging the question"
... -Statler Waldorf, Christian apologist
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RE: Atheists; what do you base your morals on?
March 17, 2013 at 5:40 pm
(This post was last modified: March 17, 2013 at 5:43 pm by jstrodel.)
(March 17, 2013 at 5:35 pm)DeistPaladin Wrote: (March 17, 2013 at 4:11 pm)jstrodel Wrote: I am against nationalistic indoctrination.
Do you mean "naturalistic indoctrination"?
It is related. I am opposed to naturalism. But education is something deep and profoundly spiritual, not meant to serve the state and be used as a tool to coerce and subjugate the minds of free people to make them into pre-professional materialists with small minds and little imagination, courage or spirituality. Such is the liberal, so desperate to be upper middle class, so small, so ugly.
You shall know the truth and the truth will make you free.
Naturalism says "God probably doesn't exist, so I can settle for making $70k and collecting car stuff". It will help the economy after all.
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RE: Atheists; what do you base your morals on?
March 17, 2013 at 5:48 pm
Quote:Such is the liberal, so desperate to be upper middle class, so small, so ugly.
Such crass and obvious projecting.
The liberal attitude towards education is certainly not that it should be a career farm. That is a purely conservative attitude, as conservatives have no use for education which is not religious/ideological indoctrination or a launchpad for a career. It is liberals who struggle to promote art and culture in education and society at large, who encourage creativity and experimentation, and conservatives who struggle to defund education and find art subsidies abhorrent.
I will concede that Christianity is a ripe playground for imagination, it being a mere construct of that particular human faculty.
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