Atheists, the death penalty and abortion...

[Esquilax]

1: Yes, Catfish. And we shouldn't be. How are you not getting this?

2: Even if we were to recognize it, you do realize that it wouldn't change our stance, right? I mean... we're still in favor of abortion rights, even if we find the morality of it less than appealing. You aren't... you aren't actually making an argument at all...

[genkaus]

1. Bullshit. We already legislate the matter.

An error on part of society - one hopefully soon to be corrected.

2. "Life" applies at a higher morality than "sexism". If you can recognise sexism against a "future person", you should recognise murder too.

a) Why would "life" apply at a higher morality? What is a higher morality?
b) Even if it is a future person, it's still not murder.
and c) As with sexism, even if I do recognize it, I still shouldn't have the authority to stop it.

[Creed of Heresy]

Catfish doesn't do a very good job of making arguments. He makes random flailings and gurgling sounds.

[EGross]

Given that there are government officials who believe like catfish, he is correct in that it is legislated. And like those who would not permit abortion even in the case of the death of the mother, they too will disappear - hopefully in our lifetimes.

Life has always been a secondary issue. The primary issue has always been control and forcing others to obey a fictional world view, and the religious view of controlling women because God loves their vaginas more than anything else (based on bible laws), catfish is right - that control is still being legislated.

But we are evolving!

[NoraBrimstone]

.......the religious view of controlling women because God loves their vaginas more than anything else (based on bible laws), catfish is right - that control is still being legislated.....

Surely you meant to say "hates"? Or he wouldn't have designed them to tear all the way through to the arsehole during childbirth.

[Esquilax]

.......the religious view of controlling women because God loves their vaginas more than anything else (based on bible laws), catfish is right - that control is still being legislated.....

Surely you meant to say "hates"? Or he wouldn't have designed them to tear all the way through to the arsehole during childbirth.

Except that the bible paints a very clear picture of just how badly god treats the things he loves. Eviscerating vaginas (this has to be the name of a thrash metal band, by the way) seems pretty par for the course, on that score.

Love your avatar, btw.

[NoraBrimstone]

That's quite true.

Speaking of abortion, have you seen this Bible passage?

Numbers 5:11-31

And the LORD spake unto Moses, saying ... If any man's wife go aside, and commit a trespass against him, And a man lie with her carnally, and it be hid from the eyes of her husband, and be kept close, and she be defiled, and there be no witness against her, neither she be taken with the manner; Then shall the man bring his wife unto the priest, and he shall bring her offering for her, the tenth part of an ephah of barley meal; he shall pour no oil upon it, nor put frankincense thereon ... And the priest shall take holy water in an earthen vessel; and of the dust that is in the floor of the tabernacle the priest shall take, and put it into the water ... And the priest shall set the woman before the LORD ... and the priest shall have in his hand the bitter water that causeth the curse:
And the priest shall charge her by an oath, and say unto the woman, If no man have lain with thee, and if thou hast not gone aside to uncleanness with another instead of thy husband, be thou free from this bitter water that causeth the curse: But if thou hast gone aside to another instead of thy husband, and if thou be defiled, and some man have lain with thee beside thine husband: Then the priest shall charge the woman with an oath of cursing, and the priest shall say unto the woman, The LORD make thee a curse and an oath among thy people, when the LORD doth make thy thigh to rot, and thy belly to swell; And this water that causeth the curse shall go into thy bowels, to make thy belly to swell, and thy thigh to rot: And the woman shall say, Amen, amen.
And when he hath made her to drink the water, then it shall come to pass, that, if she be defiled, and have done trespass against her husband, that the water that causeth the curse shall enter into her, and become bitter, and her belly shall swell, and her thigh shall rot: and the woman shall be a curse among her people. And if the woman be not defiled, but be clean; then she shall be free, and shall conceive seed. This is the law of jealousies, when a wife goeth aside to another instead of her husband, and is defiled; Or when the spirit of jealousy cometh upon him, and he be jealous over his wife, and shall set the woman before the LORD, and the priest shall execute upon her all this law. Then shall the man be guiltless from iniquity, and this woman shall bear her iniquity.

If that was a case of tl;dr for anyone, it's instructions for a man to force an abortion on his wife, with the help of a Priest, if he suspects her of cheating.

[CleanShavenJesus]

Oi vey.

[catfish]

So, the "people" here wish to prove themselves more fucked up than they claim the God of the Bible is? - Check!
Do the "people" deny basic biology to support their views? - Check!
Legislating the value (and the start?) of individual life by the "people"? - Check!
Are "people" more offended by sexism than murder? - Check!

I'm all for raising the standards of what is legally considered a "person", I say we make part of the standard a minimum intelligence level. After all, there are some dumbfucks who aren't True Humans™ with any capacity for intelligence worth noting.

The dumbasses have a double standard if you haven't noticed. If any dumbass would kill or maim another "legal" person (even a fetus), their dumbasses would be responsible for their actions. However, let 2 dumbasses create a new life and one of them is allowed to kill and maim that new life? You either value life or you don't, and if you don't, you have no right making moral judgements on a person's reason (genkaus).

[NoraBrimstone]

Murder = Unlawful killing, you total peasant.