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Please help me with Banu Qurayza story
#21
RE: Please help me with Banu Qurayza story
(March 17, 2013 at 6:34 am)Dawud Wrote: ... I have a life ...

If I show you that the evidence you showed me explicitly states that the banu Qurayza accepted the punishment and that it was under Mosaic Law will you accept that you have to admit that it wasn't under Muhammad's shariah but under a different law and that this sentence was accepted by the tribe?

- Pbuh

Or will you reject your evidence?

Or will you admit that it wasn't under Muhammad pbuh's shariah and the banu Qurayza accepted the punishment?

Your choice

"
First of all, read all of my posts I never said the word sharia. Go look, right now; never said "SHARIA". What I said was that MO the pedophile ordered killing of the tribe's men which were from 400-900 of them there. MO was leader of the muslim army - muslim army beheaded jewish tribesmen - muslim army only listens to the leader. Thus MO ordered the killing.

Now, listen to me carefully. I read you posts on other threads, you don't seem to get people in this forum which is understandable 'cuz you've been brainwashed from childhood. Before, I provided you with the evidence, you blamed christians for misleading on Banu Qurayza. I realized that if I show you the proof from western sources or from sources of "non-believers", you would simply reject them. I knew that you would only trust texts from quran or hadiths or sources that satisfy your belief. So I sent you horrble texts from quran and hadiths to prove that there is violence on those texts and that the genocide did happen.
Now, if you tell me that you trust western sources or sources of non-believers or sources of muslims who left Islam, then I can provide with the evidence that would support what I say and what most historians and scientists and people of literature and anthropolists say. So will you trust those sources? I think I already know the answer.

(March 17, 2013 at 6:34 am)Dawud Wrote: ... I have a life ...

What life? You've spent a day trying to prove me the actions of fucking pedophile. Now, that I offer you a challege on MO, you suddently have a life? Don't be a pussy, accept accept my challege!

(March 17, 2013 at 6:34 am)Dawud Wrote: ... I have a life ...

I have life lol

(March 17, 2013 at 6:34 am)Dawud Wrote: Or will you reject your evidence?

I will not reject the evidence since the purpose of it was:
1. To show you and normal people that koran is full of violence.
2. Killing of jewish tribe's men did happen, and the killing was performed by muslim army; the leader of which was MO the pedophile Shit be Upon him.

Now, tell me this. Will you reject any other evidence than from Koran, hadiths or other islamic sources?
If No, then it proves my point
if Yes, then let me know, but don't reject all of them.

The fact you've spent so much time trying to prove me, tells me that, unconciosly, you've already accepted what I say. It's hard for you to accept the truth conciously and that's when the denial comes into play.
"Lighthouses are more helpful then churches."
Benjamin Franklin
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#22
RE: Please help me with Banu Qurayza story
I was an atheist and had no Muslims in my family before I converted and grew up in a mainly atheist school - so there you are wrong.

Your sources you showed me stated that it was under the Qurayzas own law "Mosaic law" that they were killed.

The sources also say that they accepted it cos - believe it or not - they believed in their laws...

That's what your sources say.

It is just silly to call it genocide also.

I think you are just projecting your own doubts on to me.

To portray the events as genocide is unfair to the meaning of genocide and untrue to the sources that you showed me.

I had been a non-Muslim atheist til 21 years old you see - disproving your strange back story... Uh oh!

Anyway as I say - the event did happen but if you actually read the sources you will see that it was not according to Muhammad's hate for Jews - no: your sources showed that this was a carrying out of a punishment according to Jewish law and that the Qurayza accepted it. Also I study Islam at university and like Muslim scholars I do not solely take Muslim sources as authoritative.

Hence you were mistaken about the brainwashing stuff and non-Muslim stuff - I agree wholeheartedly with the non-Muslim you quoted as saying it was a punishment under Jewish law.

I also accept fully that there was sadly and - as the evidence you showed me said: the slaughter was accepted.

So... I won't get you to explicitly apologise for your mistaken assumptions about me but at least this.

Do you accept that the evidence you showed me said it was a punishment under Jewish law and that the Banu Qurayza accepted the punishment?

Please - yes or no...

(PS I use Mosaic law to mean the law of Moses AKA Jewish law found in Deuteronomy - as scholars of religion do)

PS - chill with the bad manners please: show me the fruits of this 'truth' you've discovered.

I mean - this agnosticism has improved you in some way?

I used to be such a chilled out agnostic!

I didn't get my back up too much.

PS I'm having this conversation in the hope that, even if you are agnostic, you might respect the evidence and not join in the plight of those people who just hate your family because they are not atheist/Christian/something else but claim to be Muslim. Christian fundamentalists wave this story about like mad, as well as keyboard warrior atheists but it wouldn't stand to reason in my University or any other to put forward this story as genocide: first of all because the evidence available shows the administration and acceptance of a punishment under Deuteronomical law by the tribe, second to deny the evidence (allowed) is to put one in an agnostic mode (also allowed) or put one into a mode of just making up the story how they want (which just isn't accepted in our universities...)

Trust the truth - accept your mistakes: move on to the next argument. I'd live you to because it was the continual effort to disprove the truth of Islam which brought me to such a high and deep understanding of its clear truth - Alhamdulillah! Smile

Follow the white man's way - truth through falsification!
Kudos given by (1): Dawud
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#23
RE: Please help me with Banu Qurayza story
Quote:Muhammad approved of the ruling,

That would make muhammad (fhuta) something of a dick. Odds are that none of it ever happened though. Just like xtian bullshit.
Reply
#24
RE: Please help me with Banu Qurayza story
Well - it would mean he didn't stand in the way of these people accepting their own laws.

Thanks minimalist for not just trying to weave some story - taking and leaving that which you don't like.

I respect your consistency on this matter
Kudos given by (1): Dawud
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#25
RE: Please help me with Banu Qurayza story
Muslim "history" is the same kind of ex-post facto writing that xitans use and, oddly, in roughly the same 80-100 year time period after the "death" of the alleged founder.

I guess back then 80-100 years was long enough to be certain that anyone actually alive at the time would have died off.

This:

http://www.barnesandnoble.com/w/did-muha...1610170611

was a fascinating read....particularly the linguistic stuff which I normally find horribly boring.
Reply
#26
RE: Please help me with Banu Qurayza story
Brilliant!

What is Nook.book? (Going to look that up)

Love this....(sounds so familiar!) Any wonder no one is allowed to criticise the religion...how embarrassing!
Quote:Did Muhammad Exist? reveals:

How the earliest biographical material about Muhammad dates from at least 125 years after his reported death
How six decades passed before the Arabian conquerors—or the people they conquered—even mentioned Muhammad, the Qur’an, or Islam
The startling evidence that the Qur’an was constructed from existing materials—including pre-Islamic Christian texts
How even Muslim scholars acknowledge that countless reports of Muhammad’s deeds were fabricated
Why a famous mosque inscription may refer not to Muhammad but, astonishingly, to Jesus
How the oldest records referring to a man named Muhammad bear little resemblance to the now-standard Islamic account of the life of the prophet
The many indications that Arabian leaders fashioned Islam for political reasons
Far from an anti-Islamic polemic, Did Muhammad Exist? is a sober but unflinching look at the origins of one of the world’s major religions. While Judaism and Christianity have been subjected to searching historical criticism for more than two centuries, Islam has never received the same treatment on any significant scale.

The real story of Muhammad and early Islam has long remained in the shadows. Robert Spencer brings it into the light at long last.
"The Universe is run by the complex interweaving of three elements: energy, matter, and enlightened self-interest." G'Kar-B5
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#27
RE: Please help me with Banu Qurayza story
(March 17, 2013 at 6:32 pm)Dawud Wrote: Well - it would mean he didn't stand in the way of these people accepting their own laws.

Thanks minimalist for not just trying to weave some story - taking and leaving that which you don't like.

I respect your consistency on this matter

What laws? Are you nuts? Are you serriously telling me that everyone of those people in the tribe agreed their men to be killed, women to be used as sexslaves, children to be sold in exchange for weapons? You need a therapy.

(March 17, 2013 at 4:59 pm)Dawud Wrote: I was an atheist and had no Muslims in my family before I converted and grew up in a mainly atheist school - so there you are wrong.

I had been a non-Muslim atheist til 21 years old you see - disproving your strange back story... Uh oh!

Those are not my words. Again you're making stuff up. Can you show where I said that. NEVER SAID THOSE WORDS. Here is what I said:
Quote:Let me tell you something. I was a muslim till I turned 18, I am 23 now and agnostic. I studied in the most religious school in the country. I read quran every day and prayed 5 times a week.
My family along with my twin brother are muslims now. I know what Islam is. It is the biggest fraud happened to mankind. So don't give me this crap. You're not going to fool me.

Slaughtering entire jewish tribes, taking wives as sexslaves, selling children in exchange for weapons is called a Genocide.

(March 17, 2013 at 4:59 pm)Dawud Wrote: PS I'm having this conversation in the hope that, even if you are agnostic, you might respect the evidence and not join in the plight of those people who just hate your family because they are not atheist/Christian/something else but claim to be Muslim. Christian fundamentalists wave this story about like mad, as well as keyboard warrior atheists but it wouldn't stand to reason in my University or any other to put forward this story as genocide: first of all because the evidence available shows the administration and acceptance of a punishment under Deuteronomical law by the tribe, second to deny the evidence (allowed) is to put one in an agnostic mode (also allowed) or put one into a mode of just making up the story how they want (which just isn't accepted in our universities...)

So, I'm right then you would not accept any other source than fucking quran or hadith or any other islamic source. Could you also reply to my question wich was this:
Quote:Now, tell me this. Will you reject any other evidence than from Koran, hadiths or other islamic sources?
If No, then it proves my point
if Yes, then let me know, but don't reject all of them.

(March 17, 2013 at 4:59 pm)Dawud Wrote: Follow the white man's way - truth through falsification!

wow... and you have a courage to talk about racism. Who's being racist here?

The matter of the fact is you would not accept any other source than islamic one. Any other source that says otherwise is falsification?
Seriosuly dude, Islam has education problems.

(March 17, 2013 at 4:59 pm)Dawud Wrote: ... move on to the next argument. I'd live you to because it was the continual effort to disprove the truth of Islam which brought me to such a high and deep understanding of its clear truth - Alhamdulillah! Smile

I disgree with your view on Banu Quraysa since non-islamic sources say otherwise and even from islamic sources such as hadiths that I sent you, one can draw the following conclusions:

. The leader of the muslim army when Banu Quraysa killings happened was MO the pedophile Shit be Upon him.

.Whether you say that they accepted the death, sex slavery, selling of the children or whether I say that it was as against their will, the fact is that they were killed by muslim army; the head of which was MO the pedophile Shit be Upon him.

. Even if all of the 900 men and other people "accepted" it, the final decision was still MO's - MO could've prevented the killings.

I realize that we can not agree on whether it was their will ot it was against theit will to be killed. But can we, at least, agree that the killings were performed by muslim army; head of which was Muhammad? Can we also agree that Muhammad could prevent the killings, sex slavery, selling of the children?
"Lighthouses are more helpful then churches."
Benjamin Franklin
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#28
RE: Please help me with Banu Qurayza story
Misconception that Muhammad did not render the death sentence against the Qurayza and was therefore not responsible for it

It is interesting that Muhammad did in fact attempt to offload responsibility on another party, even though later claiming to know what Allah's judgment was in the matter. Still, from the person that he chose to "arbitrate" the judgment to his subsequent reaction, it is obvious that the prophet of Islam both desired and approved of the executions.

First, Muhammad appeared to trick the Qurayza into agreeing with whatever decision on their fate might be rendered by “one of their own.” In fact, this was a Jewish convert to Islam, a Muslim who had fought in the Battle of the Trench. Unbeknownst to the Qurayza, Sa’d bin Muadh had also been one of the few Muslims injured in the battle (Ishaq 689), which one can reasonably assume to have influenced his judgment. According to the Hadith, he was quite eager to continue slaying "unbelievers" even as he lay dying in his tent (Bukhari 59:448).

Secondly, when Sa’d did render his decree that the men of Qurayza should be killed and their women and children pressed into slavery, Muhammad did not express the slightest bit of disapproval. In fact, the prophet of Islam confirmed this barbaric sentence to be Allah’s judgment as well (Bukhari 58:148). (This must have been before Allah handed down the verse "... no bearer of burdens can bear the burden of another" (Quran 53:38)).

Consider the contrast between the historical Muhammad and the man of “peace and forgiveness” that today’s Muslims often assure us that he was. In light of the fact that the Qurayza had not killed anyone, wouldn’t a true man of peace have simply sought dialogue with them to try and determine their grievance, find common ground and then resolve the matter with dignity?

Instead, the prophet of Islam had the men bound with rope. He dug trenches and then began beheading the captives in batches. In a scene that must have resembled the footage of Hitler’s death squads, small groups of helpless Jews, who had done no harm to anyone, were brought out and forced to kneel, staring down at the bodies of others, before their heads were lopped off and their own bodies were pushed down into the ditch.

There is strong evidence that Muhammad personally engaged in the slaughter. Not only does Ibn Ishaq bluntly say that the Apostle “sent for them” and “made an end of them,” but there is also support for this in the Qur’an. Verse 33:26 says of the Qurayza, “some you slew, some you took captive.” The Qur’an is supposed to be Allah’s private conversation with Muhammad, so it makes no sense that he would not be included in the word “you” (even though the Arabic is in the plural form).

In any event, there is no denying that Muhammad found pleasure in the slaughter, particularly after acquiring a pretty young Jewish girl (freshly "widowed" and thus available to him for sexual servitude) (Ishaq 693). Other women were not quite as complaint. Ibn Ishaq records the reaction of one woman who literally lost her mind as her family was being killed. The Muslims found her maniacal laughter annoying and beheaded her as well. As Aisha later recounted:


“I shall never forget my wonder at her good spirits and her loud laughter when all the time she knew that she would be killed.” (Ibn Ishaq 691)
(One can forgive her obtuseness. At that time she and her husband observed the slaughter, the wife of Muhammad was only 12-years-old).
Boys as young as fourteen were executed as well, provided that they had reached puberty. The Muslims ordered the boys to drop their clothes. Those with pubic hair then had their heads chopped off (Sahih Muslim 4390). There was no point in trying to determine whether or not they were actual combatants because there were none. There had been no combat!

Muhammad parceled out the widows and surviving children as slaves to his men. The wealth accumulated by the Qurayza was also divided. Since the tribe had been a peaceful farming and trading community, there were not enough weapons and horses taken to suit Muhammad’s tastes, so he obtained more of these by trading off some of the Qurayza women in a distant slave market (Ishaq 693).




The Qurayza Massacre
Full Story

Muhammad arrived in Medina in 622 with a band of immigrants, completely dependent on the hospitality of the three Jewish tribes that lived there alongside the Arabs. Within less than two years, two of these tribes would be evicted, losing their land and their wealth to the Muslims as soon as their guests gained the power to confiscate and conquer. Muhammad accomplished this by deftly using a strategy of “divide and conquer.”

The first tribe that he attacked, the Banu Qaynuqa, had been aligned against the other two in a recent war, so they did not go to its defense against Muhammad. Neither did the third tribe, the Banu Qurayza assist the second, the Banu Nadir, when it was attacked by the Muslims shortly thereafter, since the two clans had recently suffered a falling out over “blood money” after Muhammad’s arrival (of which he was well aware).

Muhammad was also wise enough not to order the wholesale slaughter of the first two tribes following their defeat, lest that might send the surviving people a stronger incentive to resist. In all three cases, the Jewish tribes, composed of peaceful tradesmen and farmers, surrendered their accumulated wealth to Muhammad without a fight and accepted eviction. It was only after the last tribe, the Qurayza, surrendered that Muhammad felt comfortable ordering mass executions.

Over 800 men and boys (and at least one woman) from the Qurayza tribe were beheaded by the prophet of Islam in a bloodbath that is of acute embarrassment to today’s Muslim apologists. It is an episode that is not only completely at odds with the idea that Islam is a peaceful religion, but also the claim that it is the heir to Christianity, since even that religion’s most dedicated critics could hardly imagine Jesus doing such a thing.

It is only in modern times, as Islam finds itself having to compete with morally mature religions in open debate, that the story of the massacre has become controversial. Some Muslims deny the episode, largely on the grounds of inconvenience. Others are unaware of it altogether. But, not only is the incident well documented in the Hadith and Sira (biography of Muhammad), there is even a brief reference to it in the Qur’an (verse 33:26).

Since Islam makes no apologies, particularly for anything in the life of Muhammad, contemporary Muslims generally try to convince themselves that the victims of Qurayza deserved their fate. They must have turned on the Muslims in battle and inflicted many deaths, forcing Muhammad to yield to the wishes of his people and respond in kind.

Unfortunately, the accounts of what happened, as related to the early Muslim historians by eyewitnesses, do not support this myth. In fact, it was the Qurayza who were caught in an impossible situation at the time between the Muslims and their enemies, the Meccans.

Shortly after arriving in Medina in 622, Muhammad began raiding the merchant caravans traveling to and from neighboring Mecca. He would steal their property and kill anyone who defended it (Ishaq 424-425). The Jews of Qurayza had nothing to do with this. Like the Meccans, the Jews were traders as well. They neither encouraged Muhammad’s raids, nor shared in his ill-gotten gain.

After a few years of this, the Meccans eventually realized that they would have to try and capture Medina, since it was being used as a base of operations by Muhammad and his pirates. In 627, they sent an army to the outskirts of the city and appeared poised to take it in what has been called the Battle of the Trench (Muhammad dug a trench around the exposed northern and western parts of the city to stop the Meccan military advance).

The Qurayza, who lived to the east of Medina, were thus caught in a bad situation. Not responsible for Muhammad’s war, they were nonetheless drawn into it, particularly when they were approached by a Meccan leader and asked not to assist Muhammad in his defense against the siege (to that point, the Qurayza had contributed digging tools to the Muslims, but not fighters).

The chief of the Qurayza did not wish to even entertain the Meccan envoy, but was tricked into allowing him into his home (Ishaq 674). Once there, the Meccan began making his case that the battle was going against Muhammad and that his fall was imminent. The anguish of the Qurayza chief over the trying circumstances of the position that he felt forced into is noted even by Muslim historians:


When Ka'b heard of Huyayy's coming he shut the door of his fort in his face, and when he asked permission to enter he refused to see him, saying that he was a man of ill omen... Then Huyayy accused him of [being inhospitable]... This so enraged Ka'b that he threw open his door. [Huyayy] said to him, "Good heavens, Ka'b, I have brought you immortal fame and a great army... They have made a firm agreement and promised me that they will not depart until we have made an end of Muhammad and his men. "Ka'b said, "By God, you have brought me immortal shame and an empty cloud while it thunders and lightenings with nothing in it. Woe to you Huyayy, leave me as I am." (Ishaq 674)
After much “wheedling” by the Meccans, however, the Qurayza leader finally gave in and agreed to stay neutral in the conflict. He would neither contribute troops to the city’s defense nor to its impending capture at the hands of an army with superior numbers. The Muslims would be left on their own to finish what they started with Meccans.

From Muhammad’s perspective, this was a breach of the original constitution of Medina, which he had drawn up for the tribes five years earlier. Since its signing, however, a lot of water had gone under the bridge.

For one thing, several prominent Jewish leaders and poets had been assassinated on Muhammad’s orders. At least one innocent merchant was slain by his Muslim business partner following Muhammad’s order in 624 for his men to “kill any Jew who falls into your power” (al-Tabari 7:97). The constitution of Medina certainly hadn’t stopped the Muslims from attacking the other two Jewish tribes – parties to the same agreement – looting their property and then evicting them from their land.

There is little doubt that the troubles brought on Medina by Muhammad, through his mistreatment of the Jews and his relentless pursuit of hostilities against the Meccans, influenced the Qurayza to consider how much better life had been for them prior to his arrival. From their perspective, it would just be a matter of time before Muhammad found an excuse to attack them as well.

Contrary to popular misconceptions, however, the Qurayza did not attack the Muslims. Had they attacked, then it surely would have been the end of Muhammad and his band of pirates, since the southern end of the city was completely exposed to the Qurayza. In a terrible irony, it was the decision not to engage in violence that later sealed the fate of the Jews, who were only the first in a very long line of victims, all off whom horribly overestimated the value that Islam places on the lives of unbelievers.

Interestingly, neither the Meccans nor the Muslims suffered more than a few dozen casualties combined during the entire Battle of the Trench. The weather and the city’s unexpected defenses caused the Meccans to eventually give up and go home after only a handful of attempts to breach the perimeter.

According to Muhammad, the angel Gabriel appeared (disguised with a turban and riding a mule) and provided yet another remarkably convenient revelation, this time telling him to lay siege to the Qurayza stronghold. After twenty-five days, the Jews gave in and surrendered to the prophet of Islam. As Ibn Ishaq puts it, they “submitted themselves to the Apostle’s judgment” (Ishaq 688).

Another misconception is that Muhammad did not render the death sentence against the Qurayza and was therefore not responsible for it. It is interesting that Muhammad did in fact attempt to offload responsibility on another party, even though later claiming to know what Allah's judgment was in the matter. Still, from the person that he chose to "arbitrate" the judgment to his subsequent reaction, it is obvious that the prophet of Islam both desired and approved of the executions.

First, Muhammad appeared to trick the Qurayza into agreeing with whatever decision on their fate might be rendered by “one of their own.” In fact, this was a Jewish convert to Islam, a Muslim who had fought in the Battle of the Trench. Unbeknownst to the Qurayza, Sa’d bin Muadh had also been one of the few Muslims injured in the battle (Ishaq 689), which one can reasonably assume to have influenced his judgment. According to the Hadith, he was quite eager to continue slaying "unbelievers" even as he lay dying in his tent (Bukhari 59:448).

Secondly, when Sa’d did render his decree that the men of Qurayza should be killed and their women and children pressed into slavery, Muhammad did not express the slightest bit of disapproval. In fact, the prophet of Islam confirmed this barbaric sentence to be Allah’s judgment as well (Bukhari 58:148). (This must have been before Allah handed down the verse "... no bearer of burdens can bear the burden of another" (Quran 53:38)).

Consider the contrast between the historical Muhammad and the man of “peace and forgiveness” that today’s Muslims often assure us that he was. In light of the fact that the Qurayza had not killed anyone, wouldn’t a true man of peace have simply sought dialogue with them to try and determine their grievance, find common ground and then resolve the matter with dignity?

Instead, the prophet of Islam had the men bound with rope. He dug trenches and then began beheading the captives in batches. In a scene that must have resembled the footage of Hitler’s death squads, small groups of helpless Jews, who had done no harm to anyone, were brought out and forced to kneel, staring down at the bodies of others, before their heads were lopped off and their own bodies were pushed down into the ditch.

There is strong evidence that Muhammad personally engaged in the slaughter. Not only does Ibn Ishaq bluntly say that the Apostle “sent for them” and “made an end of them,” but there is also support for this in the Qur’an. Verse 33:26 says of the Qurayza, “some you slew, some you took captive.” The Qur’an is supposed to be Allah’s private conversation with Muhammad, so it makes no sense that he would not be included in the word “you” (even though the Arabic is in the plural form).

In any event, there is no denying that Muhammad found pleasure in the slaughter, particularly after acquiring a pretty young Jewish girl (freshly "widowed" and thus available to him for sexual servitude) (Ishaq 693). Other women were not quite as complaint. Ibn Ishaq records the reaction of one woman who literally lost her mind as her family was being killed. The Muslims found her maniacal laughter annoying and beheaded her as well. As Aisha later recounted:


“I shall never forget my wonder at her good spirits and her loud laughter when all the time she knew that she would be killed.” (Ibn Ishaq 691)
(One can forgive her obtuseness. At that time she and her husband observed the slaughter, the wife of Muhammad was only 12-years-old).
Boys as young as fourteen were executed as well, provided that they had reached puberty. The Muslims ordered the boys to drop their clothes. Those with pubic hair then had their heads chopped off (Sahih Muslim 4390). There was no point in trying to determine whether or not they were actual combatants because there were none. There had been no combat!

Muhammad parceled out the widows and surviving children as slaves to his men. The wealth accumulated by the Qurayza was also divided. Since the tribe had been a peaceful farming and trading community, there were not enough weapons and horses taken to suit Muhammad’s tastes, so he obtained more of these by trading off some of the Qurayza women in a distant slave market (Ishaq 693).
"Lighthouses are more helpful then churches."
Benjamin Franklin
Reply
#29
RE: Please help me with Banu Qurayza story
He he - so finally you've seen that the Evidence shows us that the Qurayza accepted the judgment? As all of your sources say

They accepted the ruling which was under their own law - as your sources said. It's you that reject these sources.

You might find this unbelievable but it's what your sources say (whatever the moral implications)

You love these perverted opinions but you will reject all other possible sources Smile

So you admit that they accepted the ruling under their own law - or do you reject the evidence that you showed me?

PS The peace that exists between me and my Jewish friends and colleagues, that also extends back centuries through out history I other Muslim Jewish examples, is a testimony to the futility of your anti-Semitic accusation.

If your family are bigots against Jews - it doesn't mean all Muslims are. I just hope you don't become a bigot towards Muslims due to whatever tragedy struck your life.

The Jewish and Muslim community of my city get on great and have done since they came to the UK.

The local Jewish School is a place that Muslim parents are proud and grateful to send their children to - the anti-Semitic picture you paint is on so silly.

Regarding the Qurayza - this example of a treasonous tribe being tried by a criminal law foreign to Muhammad pbuh is used as a pathetic way to illustrate people's prejudice of Muslims as anti-Semites: you've joined the gang my friend and you've abandoned your family. You should care for them more: If they are bigots then help them see the falsehood of their ways - if not then tell the people I. This forum that Muslims are not all anti-semitic
Kudos given by (1): Dawud
Reply
#30
RE: Please help me with Banu Qurayza story
(March 18, 2013 at 5:55 am)Dawud Wrote: He he - so finally you've seen that the Evidence shows us that the Qurayza accepted the judgment? As all of your sources say

They accepted the ruling which was under their own law - as your sources said. It's you that reject these sources.

You might find this unbelievable but it's what your sources say (whatever the moral implications)

You love these perverted opinions but you will reject all other possible sources Smile

So you admit that they accepted the ruling under their own law - or do you reject the evidence that you showed me?

PS The peace that exists between me and my Jewish friends and colleagues, that also extends back centuries through out history I other Muslim Jewish examples, is a testimony to the futility of your anti-Semitic accusation.

If your family are bigots against Jews - it doesn't mean all Muslims are. I just hope you don't become a bigot towards Muslims due to whatever tragedy struck your life.

The Jewish and Muslim community of my city get on great and have done since they came to the UK.

The local Jewish School is a place that Muslim parents are proud and grateful to send their children to - the anti-Semitic picture you paint is on so silly.

Regarding the Qurayza - this example of a treasonous tribe being tried by a criminal law foreign to Muhammad pbuh is used as a pathetic way to illustrate people's prejudice of Muslims as anti-Semites: you've joined the gang my friend and you've abandoned your family. You should care for them more: If they are bigots then help them see the falsehood of their ways - if not then tell the people I. This forum that Muslims are not all anti-semitic

I think I know your diagnosis now. It's clear from your posts that you're dellusional. I never said it was not in accordance with law of Moses. What I have always been saying is that those men were killed by muslim army; the head of which was MO the pedophile. Muhammed could have prevented the killings, but not only he didn't prevent it he celbrated it. Have a look at my previous post. It was sent before I send you the evidence:

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The Islamic Prophet Muhammad besieged the Banu Qurayza for 25 days until they surrendered. One of Muhammad's companions decided that "the men should be killed, the property divided, and the women and children taken as captives". Muhammad approved of the ruling, calling it similar to God's judgement, after which all male members of the tribe who had reached puberty were beheaded. According to Daniel C. Peterson and Martin Lings, this judgment was in accordance with the law of Moses as stated in Deuteronomy The Muslim jurist Tabari quotes 600-900 being executed.The Sunni hadith give the number killed, and state that all males were killed and 1 woman (the 1 woman is according to Sunan Abu Dawud).The rest of the woman and children were sold in exchange for weapons and horses, according to Islamic sources.
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Reply to Dawud:

If you're blind or never read the post I sent as evidence, here is what it also says:
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There is strong evidence that Muhammad personally engaged in the slaughter. Not only does Ibn Ishaq bluntly say that the Apostle “sent for them” and “made an end of them,” but there is also support for this in the Qur’an. Verse 33:26 says of the Qurayza, “some you slew, some you took captive.” The Qur’an is supposed to be Allah’s private conversation with Muhammad, so it makes no sense that he would not be included in the word “you” (even though the Arabic is in the plural form).

In any event, there is no denying that Muhammad found pleasure in the slaughter, particularly after acquiring a pretty young Jewish girl (freshly "widowed" and thus available to him for sexual servitude) (Ishaq 693). Other women were not quite as complaint. Ibn Ishaq records the reaction of one woman who literally lost her mind as her family was being killed. The Muslims found her maniacal laughter annoying and beheaded her as well. As Aisha later recounted:


“I shall never forget my wonder at her good spirits and her loud laughter when all the time she knew that she would be killed.” (Ibn Ishaq 691)
(One can forgive her obtuseness. At that time she and her husband observed the slaughter, the wife of Muhammad was only 12-years-old).
Boys as young as fourteen were executed as well, provided that they had reached puberty. The Muslims ordered the boys to drop their clothes. Those with pubic hair then had their heads chopped off (Sahih Muslim 4390). There was no point in trying to determine whether or not they were actual combatants because there were none. There had been no combat!

Muhammad parceled out the widows and surviving children as slaves to his men. The wealth accumulated by the Qurayza was also divided. Since the tribe had been a peaceful farming and trading community, there were not enough weapons and horses taken to suit Muhammad’s tastes, so he obtained more of these by trading off some of the Qurayza women in a distant slave market (Ishaq 693).
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To Dawud

From all the evidence that I've sent you we can clearly say this:

The tribe of Banu Quraysa were killed by muslim army; head of which was Muhammed. Muhammad approved the killing meaning that he could have prevented. But he did not. Muhammad then used wives as sexslaves and sold children in exchange for weapons.

I understand that you will never admit even if all the evidence suggests so; even the evidence that you trust.

(March 18, 2013 at 5:55 am)Dawud Wrote: PS The peace that exists between me and my Jewish friends and colleagues, that also extends back centuries through out history I other Muslim Jewish examples, is a testimony to the futility of your anti-Semitic accusation.

Is that why most jewish people had to escape to Europe. Even today, most jewish people live outside Israel. What happened to jewish tribes in Saud Arabia, for instance. They left because they were discriminated, assaulted, raped, demonized and killed. Do you own research!
"Lighthouses are more helpful then churches."
Benjamin Franklin
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