Our server costs ~$56 per month to run. Please consider donating or becoming a Patron to help keep the site running. Help us gain new members by following us on Twitter and liking our page on Facebook!
Current time: April 26, 2024, 12:39 am

Thread Rating:
  • 0 Vote(s) - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
Morality without the righteous. What is right and wrong?
#21
RE: Morality without the righteous. What is right and wrong?
If Darwin says that blacks are soon going to die off and sick children in the hospital should die off because they are all the weaker of the species in "the descendants of man" then it is that what you guys believe too?
Reply
#22
RE: Morality without the righteous. What is right and wrong?
(March 12, 2013 at 3:51 pm)Tranquility Wrote: "It is wrong to cause harm to others."

What does wrong mean?

That the action goes against the particular morality that is being used to judge the situation.

(March 12, 2013 at 3:51 pm)Tranquility Wrote: "It is right to be helpful to others."

What does right mean?

That the action aligns with the particular morality that is being used to judge the situation.

(March 12, 2013 at 5:06 pm)NoMoreFaith Wrote: Right and Wrong are absolute statements which require context to attribute to an action.

Is it wrong to harm others who are in the action of trying to harm you or your family for instance.

The trick to morality is that in the context of an infinite number of situations and we make do with broad generalisations of right and wrong based on experience.

I would disagree that right and wrong is linked to the detriment or advantage of the individual, and I personally find it hard to argue with Kant's first categorical imperative being; "Act only according to that maxim whereby you can at the same time will that it should become a universal law without contradiction."

This is the closest to being able to formulate right or wrong in most instances.

Haven't you already argued against the first categorical imperative? If the action is in accordance with the maxim and actions are contextual, that'd usually make the maxims contextual as well. Therefore, it'd be difficult to find maxims that you'd consider universally applicable without contradiction.
Reply
#23
RE: Morality without the righteous. What is right and wrong?
(March 12, 2013 at 7:39 pm)Tranquility Wrote: Am I the only one who understands moral statements to mean there is a standard of dos and don'ts in behavior to which we have an obligation or duty to comply?

"It is wrong to (insert behavior of choice)." This statement means the behavior is a don't according to the standard.
"It is right to (insert behavior of choice)." This statement means the behavior is a do according to the standard.

I can't get my head around it to mean anything else, which is why I ask what the word means.

You are correct and that standard is called morality. Morality is a conceptual guide on how to live your life. Which means your actions, thoughts or motivations which comply with it come under the dos and those which do not come under the don'ts. This also makes it a standard by which you can judge your actions, thoughts and motivations. Compliance is then labelled as right and non-compliance as wrong.
Reply
#24
RE: Morality without the righteous. What is right and wrong?
(March 12, 2013 at 3:51 pm)Tranquility Wrote: "It is wrong to cause harm to others."
What does wrong mean?

"It is right to be helpful to others."

What does right mean?
Right and Wrong cannot be absolute, they are only defined relatively
If you believe in God, then he defines what is wrong or good
If not, then it is usually what the majority (or in power) accept as wrong or good

for example it is right (for most people to eat chicken) but I'm sure it is wrong (from the chicken point of view)
Reply
#25
RE: Morality without the righteous. What is right and wrong?
(March 13, 2013 at 2:05 am)Muslim Scholar Wrote: Right and Wrong cannot be absolute, they are only defined relatively

Yes, relative to a particular moral code.

(March 13, 2013 at 2:05 am)Muslim Scholar Wrote: If you believe in God, then he defines what is wrong or good

Wrong. Existence of god does not necessitate him dictating a morality. Nor does it necessitate the believer accepting it.

(March 13, 2013 at 2:05 am)Muslim Scholar Wrote: If not, then it is usually what the majority (or in power) accept as wrong or good


Wrong again. There are many other options available.

(March 13, 2013 at 2:05 am)Muslim Scholar Wrote: for example it is right (for most people to eat chicken) but I'm sure it is wrong (from the chicken point of view)

That would assume that the chicken has a moral point of view, which would make it a moral agent and therefore the process of eating it immoral by default.
Reply
#26
RE: Morality without the righteous. What is right and wrong?
Exactly, people want to believe in Darwin's theory of evolution but when it comes to the reality of the belief everyone is steps back... because no 1 wants to be the 1 to say we should let children die in the hospital or blacks in Africa to finally die off and lets us stronger species survive... but they shouldn't bother you because according to Darwin, morals don't exist outside of cultures. especially to evolutionists...
Reply
#27
RE: Morality without the righteous. What is right and wrong?
(March 13, 2013 at 2:18 am)genkaus Wrote:
(March 13, 2013 at 2:05 am)Muslim Scholar Wrote: If you believe in God, then he defines what is wrong or good
Wrong. Existence of god does not necessitate him dictating a morality. Nor does it necessitate the believer accepting it.
Well, theoretically yes
Most Gods (claimed by humans)

Quote:
(March 13, 2013 at 2:05 am)Muslim Scholar Wrote: If not, then it is usually what the majority (or in power) accept as wrong or good
Wrong again. There are many other options available.
What are the options in actions?

Quote:That would assume that the chicken has a moral point of view
do you think that chicken like to be eaten?
Reply
#28
RE: Morality without the righteous. What is right and wrong?
(March 13, 2013 at 7:55 am)Muslim Scholar Wrote: What are the options in actions?

Categorical imperative, Virtue Ethics, Utilitarianism, Ethical Egoism, Stoicism, Intutionism - just to name a few.

(March 13, 2013 at 7:55 am)Muslim Scholar Wrote: do you think that chicken like to be eaten?

I don't have sufficient evidence to assume either way.
Reply
#29
RE: Morality without the righteous. What is right and wrong?
As a minor nitpick MS, there's actually no difference between the two options you presented in principle, whether you believe or whether you do not, in your example, what is right and wrong is still being determined by whomever is in power - be it gods or humans. I wouldn't argue that might does not make right in practice (we see it all the time) - but we also understand that might does not make right in principle, making an invocation of either the power of a god or the power of a man a poor justification for a set of moral guidelines (IMHO).
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
Reply
#30
RE: Morality without the righteous. What is right and wrong?
(March 13, 2013 at 12:34 am)genkaus Wrote: You are correct and that standard is called morality. Morality is a conceptual guide on how to live your life. Which means your actions, thoughts or motivations which comply with it come under the dos and those which do not come under the don'ts. This also makes it a standard by which you can judge your actions, thoughts and motivations. Compliance is then labelled as right and non-compliance as wrong.

Do you make moral statements and believe we have obligations or duties to behave a certain way?

I can make ought assessments of my own behavior and that of others based on my judgement of what is the prudent thing to do or simply the things I want to do or to be. But it makes no sense to me to assert that there is a duty or obligation to do or not do this or that.

**Edited to discombobulate my last sentence.
Reply



Possibly Related Threads...
Thread Author Replies Views Last Post
  Beauty, Morality, God, and a Table FrustratedFool 23 1887 October 8, 2023 at 1:35 pm
Last Post: LinuxGal
  Why is murder wrong if Many Worlds Interpretation of Quantum Mechanics is true? FlatAssembler 52 3912 August 7, 2022 at 8:51 am
Last Post: The Grand Nudger
  Belief without Verification or Certainty vulcanlogician 40 3311 May 11, 2022 at 4:50 pm
Last Post: vulcanlogician
  Is Moral Nihilism a Morality? vulcanlogician 140 10359 July 17, 2019 at 11:50 am
Last Post: DLJ
  Subjective Morality? mfigurski80 450 37534 January 13, 2019 at 8:40 am
Last Post: Acrobat
  Law versus morality robvalue 16 1344 September 2, 2018 at 7:39 am
Last Post: The Grand Nudger
  What is wrong with FW? Little Rik 126 14855 August 17, 2018 at 4:10 am
Last Post: bennyboy
  Objective morality: how would it affect your judgement/actions? robvalue 42 8312 May 5, 2018 at 5:07 pm
Last Post: SaStrike
  dynamic morality vs static morality or universal morality Mystic 18 3562 May 3, 2018 at 10:28 am
Last Post: LastPoet
  Can somebody give me a good argument in favor of objective morality? Aegon 19 4445 March 14, 2018 at 6:42 pm
Last Post: The Grand Nudger



Users browsing this thread: 1 Guest(s)