Toaster strudel alliance takes on drugs, atheists and liberalism

[Creed of Heresy]

Oh wow.

"The rave scene is a gateway?"

I've been regularly going to raves at nightclubs for the last seven years to the tune of at least once a month. NONE of those things exist except in the seediest inner city nightclubs in the slums of Detroit and LA, and hell, even in Detroit, in the 5 Mile line, you didn't see that shit nearly as much as you're making out like it is.

You know something, I know a lot of people on a lot of different drugs. My friend's father is basically addicted to cocaine. Guy is in his late 50s, in rather good health, and owns his own business, makes a fuckton of money, and doesn't generally seem to have any problems with anything.

I think what you've seen is a load of bullshit. And your two cents are worth nothing. "It is all bad." Moralfag, much? This is the same guy who says that slavery is A-OK in certain situations, but apparently weed and alcohol? They're BAD NEWS, BRO.

Please.

---

Get a focking MFLB mate!

You'll stretch that 1/8th into two weeks (chronic usage).

Probably much longer.

WARNING: Creed's limited knowledge of acronyms showing in 3...2...1!

Wuzza MFLB? D:

[jstrodel]

I never said slavery was ok. I think if people are starving to death, it would be better for them to sell themselves into slavery then starve. That is not saying it is A-OK, slavery is dehumanizing and brutal. It is a very good thing that it is illegal.

Where I live, we used to have a place called Buttons Arcade. They had a drug bust, it was the largest in history. They found weapons, every drug you could think of. One guy had rape charges. Why would I make that up?

[John V]

If you can't enjoy life sober as much as you do on drugs, you have a drug problem. Or perhaps it's more accurate to say you have a life problem.

If you can enjoy life sober as much as on drugs, then why spend the money and take the health risks of drugs?

[Something completely different]

If you can't enjoy life sober as much as you do on drugs, you have a drug problem. Or perhaps it's more accurate to say you have a life problem.

agreed

edit:

fuck, I missread! I thought you wrote "If one enjoys life more when drunk than sober". So yeah, I disagree and beneath is why.

If you can enjoy life sober as much as on drugs, then why spend the money and take the health risks of drugs?

Hey! Why not destroy all videogames, Pc`s, all alcohol and why not every structure upholding civilisation itself and live as huntergatherers again?

After all, living as hunter gatherer doesnt seem to be that much without fun!

Most people out there into ecstasy are into coke and/or meth. I challenge you to find people that are seriously into ecstasy that don't do those drugs. Of course you can say I will just try it, what if you like it? I won't say it doesn't feel good, the comedown hurts a lot more sometimes than the high. I've had comedowns that have seemed to turn into long term depressive episodes.

You can say I'm a dumbass and I should just control myself, but many others have expressed those sentiments, read about drugs, got into it and started getting really into it. Because you can read erowid or whatever does not protect you from the dangers of using drugs.

Ok from my expirience extecy and acid was more widespread amongst those who went to drum & base festivals or lengthy GOA sesions, whilest the coke and speed users like myself went to savage tek festivals and death metal events.

This may only be a personal expirience, but anyway - I think drug use is different from individual to individual and that generalisations over which drug is used by which person isnt possible.

[Napoléon]

If you can't enjoy life sober as much as you do on drugs, you have a drug problem. Or perhaps it's more accurate to say you have a life problem.

You're saying everyone on the planet who likes to have a drink of alcohol once in a while has a life problem?

Kindly fuck off out of this thread.

If you can enjoy life sober as much as on drugs, then why spend the money and take the health risks of drugs?

Who fucking said you have to have drugs to have a good time? No one's even said that you disingenuous cunt.

[John V]

It makes me laugh when people say things like this, I'm willing to bet just because you have said this you have never taken ecstasy.

True, it wasn't around when I was into drugs.

Natural happiness vs happiness on ecstasy is like having a day to day normal headache vs someone throwing a brick at your face.

I'd rather have a normal headache than a brick thrown at my face, so that was a pretty poorly planned analogy.

It's an outside stimulus that doesn't ask for your permission to change the way you think or how you feel, any normally wired human being enjoys life more on ecstasy than they do normal life, the trick is to be aware and to know this and to move on and to think that life is about more than just experiencing a supernatural degree of happiness 6 hours at a time because of a pill.

1. Life extends past the 6 hours. Apparently a significant number of people find the following days or even days to be far less enjoyable than normal life. You don't know if you'll be one of those people beforehand.

2. No one knows beforehand if they'll be able to pull off "the trick" and keep this perspective.

Although i agree with the statement in a sense of long term drug abuse is usually a sign that something is wrong in a persons life, and there is a thin line between use and abuse. But just as a generalized statement it doesn't really work.

Strictly as stated it is somewhat of a false dichotomy, but the principle is sound. You're spending money on something that provides at best transitory pleasure but can cause harm. You can alternatively save money, do something pleasurable if less intense, and depending on what you choose have something long-term to show for it and provide additional pleasure.

[paulpablo]

It makes me laugh when people say things like this, I'm willing to bet just because you have said this you have never taken ecstasy.

True, it wasn't around when I was into drugs.

Natural happiness vs happiness on ecstasy is like having a day to day normal headache vs someone throwing a brick at your face.

I'd rather have a normal headache than a brick thrown at my face, so that was a pretty poorly planned analogy.
pleasure.

You don't understand how the analogy works if you think it was a poorly planned analogy.

I had already presupposed believe it or not that you would rather have a normal headache than a brick thrown in your face.
The actual point was that ecstasy is more extreme and is an outside stimulus that directly effects the brains happiness.
Natural happiness is less extreme it is often caused by an outside stimulus but with less of a direct brutal effect.
A headache is usually less extreme and more natural although can be caused by an outside stimulus but less direct and brutal.
In conclusion
Taking ecstasy is a direct unsubtle way of changing the dopamine levels within the brain in comparison to someone telling you a joke, or feeling good after a hard days work.
Having a brick thrown in your face is a direct unsubtle way of causing pain to your face, in comparison to having a headache.

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1. Life extends past the 6 hours. Apparently a significant number of people find the following days or even days to be far less enjoyable than normal life. You don't know if you'll be one of those people beforehand.

I always felt happy the day after taking ecstasy just from thinking of memories from the night before, same with my friends at the time so i can only talk from my own perspective and what their behavior was like.
I've had several friends go crazy from taking speed and having psychotic come downs from that, but never ecstasy.

The only direct downside i found from taking ecstasy is that it made me mr charming towards girls in an extreme way but I'd never want to have sex with them because i was having too much of a good time just being on the drug, which looking back was such a waste of time when i could have been with the girls instead.
These days I'd choose sex over any drug.

[jstrodel]

[quote='jstrodel' pid='410695' dateline='1362643828']
Where I live, we used to have a place called Buttons Arcade. They had a drug bust, it was the largest in history. They found weapons, every drug you could think of. One guy had rape charges. Why would I make that up?

https://www.google.com/search?q=buttons+...80&bih=627

Largest bust in New York history. Maybe Syracuse history. I can't find the newspaper article, this was 10 years ago. I had friends that were there when it was busted. They had federal agents all sorts of crazy guys seizing guns. Many people with long criminal records. They had over 100 cops there. The fact that you would assume that I would make something up like that shows that you have some sort of bias to justify ecstasy use. That is probably why you are an atheist.

One friend of mine is in jail now, one is dead, another just got free from being homeless (not all from the rave scene). Another guy I knew growing up died of a drunk driving, another one was jailed, another one was arrested for mushrooms, other people screwed up from taking acid, other people turned into strippers and prostitutes over drug use.

I uesd to live in a neighborhood where you could hear AK-47's going off because people were selling drugs and fighting over it all the time. Constantly.

Why can't you just accept the fact that drugs fuck people up?

If you have a commitment to "truth" why can't you just acknowledge that drugs are bad?

Drugs fuck people up, you know that, don't you?

I understand people are atheists, that is really not that good, but telling people drugs are not as bad for you as they are is evil.

I grew up on all this bullshit from harm reduction websites telling me that ecstasy wasn't bad and that raves were safe places. They try to get you to believe that that ravers are just upper middle class, well educated intellectual people who are responsible drug users. Yes, there are some ravers who fit this stereotype. And there are also a lot of ravers that fit that stereotype, and as they get deeper into it, they get deep into drugs, crime, prostitution, all sorts of crazy shit. I have seen it with my own eyes. A lot of people are dying out there and you are trying to twist the statistics to prove "ecstasy only kills x number of people because of dehydration and you can drink water to avoid it". I have seen that crap my whole life.

Ecstasy gets a significant portion of the people into hard drugs, into selling drugs, into crazy stuff. That is a fact. It is probably only like 20% or 30% of people that are into it, but that is a high number. It ruins a lot of lives. People look at the dehydration or neurotoxicity issue and they think "this is not so bad because if you do it this way it doesn't hurt you that much". They don't realize that when you do ecstasy, it does feel good, and then, a lot of the time, you do it again. And then, a lot of people will keep chasing the same feeling. Many will chase it their whole life, I think it is probably like 20-30-40 percent of people that get into ecstasy become serious drug addicts over there whole life. I have seen plenty of them.

Drugs are no joke. If you understanding of ethics leads you to think that because only 20% of people are going to become lifelong drug addicts and screwups and criminals from taking this stuff and that means I can promote drug use and try and downplay its seriousness with statistics, I think you are a callous and hard hearted person who has no real love or concern for others.

Drugs are a big deal, anyone who says so is a liar. I am not one of those people who is pushing for very heavy criminal penalties against drug use, I am a former user who has seen a lot of lives destroyed from it. It is a big deal.

Jails, institutions, death - that says it all. If you are one of the upper middle class responsible users who is wise and kind and sophisticated enough to show people that they can be recreational drug users and do ok with it while their friends lives all go down the tubes, I think you are a selfish piece of shit.

I don't say this that often, as a Christian, but, actually, if this is you, FUCK YOU. I have lost years of my life because of that bullshit. You are ruining peoples lives. If you are the one who gets addicted, it is no ones fault but your own, and you will suffer and then you will go back and do the same thing I am doing now, with your head down low, realizing that you couldn't "outsmart" drugs. That is the culture.

[rexbeccarox]

No, actually fuck you. YOU screwed up your life. You can't blame it on drugs YOU chose to take over and over.

[jstrodel]

No, actually fuck you. YOU screwed up your life. You can't blame it on drugs YOU chose to take over and over.

This is what you call an atheist approach to ethics. I'm going to do whatever I want, and if it hurts other people, its their fault. Veganism?

Atheists are the leaders when it comes to love and compassion.