Potentially Interesting Development

[CapnAwesome]

I also come from a Jewish background and passed up on my birthright trip to Israel (I'm too old now, I think you have to be under 30 . It's fairly outrageous the way that Othodox Jews claim religious exception. Most of the secular Israelis I've met hate the Orthodox, largely because they get a free ticket past the military. They want to break the government laws by building illegal settlements, demand government protection, and then not participate in civil society. All in the name of a Religion that makes the claim they are the chosen people. Fuck them and fuck that.

It extends to the US too where they claim the religious right to suck on infant penises even if it gives them herpes, as I pointed out in another thread. http://atheistforums.org/thread-14652.html

[thesummerqueen]

Goddammit, you and a former lover of mine are really killing my excuse that Jewish men were just not goddamn attractive enough.

[Minimalist]

It extends to the US too where they claim the religious right to suck on infant penises even if it gives them herpes, as I pointed out in another thread. http://atheistforums.org/thread-14652.html

There just seems to be something about Angry Desert God religions and sucking on kids' dicks, doesn't there?

[thesummerqueen]

More to the point, though -

Ungodlyfossil tells a good joke that I think I've mentioned on here before. There's a Jewish organization that looks over Jewy affairs in Germany who were trying to extort the rather capitalistically minded German railway system for reparations during the time of the concentration camps. Not for actual victims who were still living...just for Jews in general. fossil rather snidely said "I'm surprised the railway system isn't charging THEM for 6 million one way tickets."

I've also seen articles passed along by friends in which Jews with an agenda are trying to see if there's a scientific basis for "trauma transference" in which a Holocaust survivor's physical and emotional trauma is allegedly passed through the genetics of their children and grandchildren, making them depressed, among other problems.

What you have is a people who, like many other groups, considered themselves the most favored of all people, and yet were constantly one of the most shit on. It has developed many things: an attitude of exclusion, a martyr complex, an undeserved feel of "deserving", and all of the other psychoses that come from being part of the orthodox of any repressive religion.

The orthodox Jews are content to sit back and ride the coattails of successful Jews anywhere...yet when pressed, any Jew who isn't orthodox isn't Jew enough. Unless of course they're giving the religion a good public name. They have "modesty" gangs just like Muslims do. They have a billion and one rules about how to live, and a billion and three ways to get around them. They are the biggest whiners on the face of the planet - kvetching is an ethnic past time. But don't give them what they want - it won't ever be enough. And if you don't give them what they want, it gives them plenty to complain about.

If you can catch any interview by David Silverman of American Atheists on how fucked up going to a Jewish school is, it's rather funny to listen to. What's sad is when he begins to talk about how members of the orthodox try to leave, only to realize how woefully underprepared for the modern world they are. They don't teach them the basic skills to get on outside of their community, effectively trapping members for the rest of their lives.

[Minimalist]

They don't teach them the basic skills to get on outside of their community, effectively trapping members for the rest of their lives.

The basis of most successful cults.

[Autumnlicious]

I also come from a Jewish background and passed up on my birthright trip to Israel (I'm too old now, I think you have to be under 30 . It's fairly outrageous the way that Othodox Jews claim religious exception. Most of the secular Israelis I've met hate the Orthodox, largely because they get a free ticket past the military. They want to break the government laws by building illegal settlements, demand government protection, and then not participate in civil society. All in the name of a Religion that makes the claim they are the chosen people. Fuck them and fuck that.

It extends to the US too where they claim the religious right to suck on infant penises even if it gives them herpes, as I pointed out in another thread. http://atheistforums.org/thread-14652.html

On a side note, one thing I love about AtheistForums is that sooner or later, we end up converging on beliefs.

It is nice that the ideological aisle isn't an absolute and that we can agree on the parasitical double think that certain overtly religious groups use to escape participation in the social contract.

Then again, I often mull on the beliefs I share with A Theist.

World ain't a black or white place until we make it that way.

[thesummerqueen]

They don't teach them the basic skills to get on outside of their community, effectively trapping members for the rest of their lives.

The basis of most successful cults.

My object in telling you about the transference thing was to point out the other part of being a successful cult: to insist that the members are somehow special - more than any other group - and that they will be reviled for it but must understand that it's not because they're wrong, or even just different, but because people covet what they have and what they are. Even some Christian groups will call Jews the Chosen People.

These people want to feel special. They want an explanation for why they get punished for clinging onto their religion. They want to have distinction.

The sad thing is, distinction only happens in the secular side. Jews, thanks to certain cultural values, are some of the funniest and smartest people you will ever meet. But this is pretty much only happens where secularism and the cultural inheritance collide. The orthodox are still chasing that fame and glory. They'd love to claim Einstein. They'd love to claim Jon Stewart's success (not so much his content). They'd love to claim a hundred scientists and artists. Most of them, if not all, were and are secular, or very loose Jews.

[Minimalist]

Even some Christian groups will call Jews the Chosen People.

How's that working out for you?

Even the second century writer Celsus knew it was horseshit.

"You are fond of saying that in the old days this same most high god made these and greater promises to those who gave heed to his commandments and worshipped him. But at the risk of appearing unkind, I ask how much good has been done by those promises have done either the Jews before you or you in your present circumstances. And would you have us put out faith in such a god? Instead of being masters of the whole world, the jews today have no home of any kind."

[Something completely different]

the military draft was banned here almoust 2 years ago.

back then women were excluded (which is sexist) and men who didnt want to serve had to do social work for a year.

I think that if a country choses to have a draft military, no one should be excluded from it. And certainly not a certain religious or political group.

[thesummerqueen]

Hey, dude, I'm not defending it, I'm only saying the bullshit spreads so far as to swoop over some groups that aren't even IN that religion.