Science and religion

[Silver]

No, you don't know what you are talking about.

Of course not, but let me guess. You are going to provide me with a wall of text that means absolutely nothing in the grand scheme of the debate except to stroke your own godforsaken ego.

[jstrodel]

Miracle:
n.
an event that is contrary to the established laws of nature and attributed to a supernatural cause

Prove the metaphysics implicit in this statement, that there are such things as "laws of nature".



m-w.com says this about miracle:

: an extraordinary event manifesting divine intervention in human affairs


There is nothing contradictory about that. I also notice that you didn't give a citation for which dictionary you used. Did you just make the definition up and consider youself an authority?

[Jackalope]

Words are self evident symbols.

Prove it.

[jstrodel]

Words are self evident symbols.


1. A word is a symbol that represents something in the outside world
2. When someone reads a word, they recognize that the symbol signifies something
3. The meaning, what is signified, is self evident if it is understood correctly, the truth value of the word is not self evident

It is ok to appeal to a common understanding of the word word, because it is uncontroversial.

[Tartarus Sauce]

Miracle:
n.
an event that is contrary to the established laws of nature and attributed to a supernatural cause

Prove the metaphysics implicit in this statement, that there are such things as "laws of nature".



m-w.com says this about miracle:

: an extraordinary event manifesting divine intervention in human affairs


There is nothing contradictory about that. I also notice that you didn't give a citation for which dictionary you used. Did you just make the definition up and consider youself an authority?

An extraordinary event manifesting as divine intervention in human affairs=an event that is contrary to the established laws of nature and attributed to a supernatural cause.
The two are interchangeable, just different degrees on what is being emphasized and what is implied.

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/miracle
Scroll down just a bit and presto.

[Jackalope]

Words are self evident symbols.


1. A word is a symbol that represents something in the outside world
2. When someone reads a word, they recognize that the symbol signifies something
3. The meaning, what is signified, is self evident if it is understood correctly, the truth value of the word is not self evident

It is ok to appeal to a common understanding of the word word, because it is uncontroversial.

If it were self-evident, you wouldn't find it necessary to provide three bullet points to prove it.

Fail.

[jstrodel]

No, they aren't interchangeable. Your whole argument before hinged on the dictionary definition being contradictory. That is because you defined the word in terms of supposed "laws of nature". A miracle is conflicting with the "laws of nature". Which laws of nature? Can you go down to the justice center in your local court and read the laws of nature? Obviously that presupposes the philosophy of the people who wrote the definition.

Do you have any critical thinking skills at all? I am not intending to insult you, but you are really doing a bad job. Can't you see the metaphysics implied in what you wrote and how different the two are? Are you blind? I am not trying to insult you, again, but seriously.

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Words are self evident symbols.


1. A word is a symbol that represents something in the outside world
2. When someone reads a word, they recognize that the symbol signifies something
3. The meaning, what is signified, is self evident if it is understood correctly, the truth value of the word is not self evident

It is ok to appeal to a common understanding of the word word, because it is uncontroversial.

If it were self-evident, you wouldn't find it necessary to provide three bullet points to prove it.

Fail.

You could compress those into one line. It is not like there is any logic. It would be whitespace in C++.

[Tartarus Sauce]

I think it's fucking hilarious that you don't understand which laws of nature I am referring to and why you are at a disadvantage arguing against them.

No, my argument doesn't rely on the exact wording of the dictionary, and yes they are still interchangeable. It all comes down the same ballpark and the burden of proof still rests on your shoulders.

[Silver]

Do you have any critical thinking skills at all?

It is the same old same old with you. Do you have any material to your act that does not bore us?

Open your mind, you are liberal scum, etc, and it is becoming old very fast.

[jstrodel]

I have been at different times an anarchist, a socialist and a liberal. Nothing against liberals.

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I think it's fucking hilarious that you don't understand which laws of nature I am referring to and why you are at a disadvantage arguing against them.

No, my argument doesn't rely on the exact wording of the dictionary, and yes they are still interchangeable. It all comes down the same ballpark and the burden of proof still rests on your shoulders.

I know what laws of nature you are referring to, can you prove that any such laws of nature exist? Obviously the definition that you posted provides the internal logic to make the statement self contradictory - it is foolish to believe in miracles because miracles are against the laws of nature.

Do you think it is hilarious that I am asking you to prove that there are any such "laws of nature" that exist as metaphysical absolutes? You know that people used to think Newton's laws referred to deterministic mathematical laws in the physical world, and then people discovered that they didn't. Newtons theories have since been replaced and are not longer seen as absolutes in the physical world.

I bet you $100 you have never heard of the realism/anti realism debate, even though it is among the more important debates in the philosophy world and it is relevant. You will probably say I am a fucking idiot for bringing it up.