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"Wouldn't one be required, to justify Christian communion?"
Only for the Catholic version (transubstantiation). By their own doctrines, the other denominations aren't eating human flesh, even if they're eating Jesus.
The Lord bless you and keep you; the Lord make his face to shine upon you and be gracious to you; the Lord lift up his countenance upon you and give you peace.
It's quite simple, look in scripture and you will not find anywhere that God created satan ie. the devil.
Let's take your reasoning into consideration and see if you still agree with yourself. You are saying God created the evil being satan and thus God is ultimately responsible for satans actions. Am I correct to this point, of coarse I am, you and others here have stated this many times and gave kudos for such a response. Now since you hold this as a truth let's apply it to you. You have raised a son, you have given him all he needs to be a responsible citizen, yet he turns out to be a notorious murderer of many people, a vile man full of hate for others, caring not for the actions of his life. How is it by your own reasoning that you should not be picked up and charged for the crimes your son has committed, he received the death penalty for his crimes, shouldn't you have to face the same possible sentence, he is your son after all.
Bbutt Wrote:Ok, so lets look at this from gods perspective.
"I am going to create lucifer who, in my omniscience, I know is going to fall and become the evil that plagues my most precious creation, Man. That sounds reasonable."
See, if I was omnicient and omnipotent, I would either 1. Not have the child that I KNOW is going to be rotten or 2. Use my infinite power to make sure he doesn't become rotten.
You fairy-tale god is weak and stupid, pushes responsibility off on others and, in the end, doesn't exist anyway so none of this matters!
Well, I guess you are avoiding the question I put before you, does that mean I get a free pass on one of your questions?
Because you are not, nor ever will be God the omniscient and omnipotent One you have no idea what you would do. You do not have all the facts to determine such a thing, so sir you are way off base on this subject of creating, wouldn't you agree? God created out of love, not out of prevention, I'm sure most parents at one time or other said they wish they had never had a child, I know mine did. Yet they have been nothing but loving to me all the time.
If you and others persist on making the statement that God does not exist, then you should have to pony up some very specific info, that's the same you ask from Christians.
God loves those who believe and those who do not and the same goes for me, you have no choice in this matter. That puts the matter of total free will to rest.
It's quite simple, look in scripture and you will not find anywhere that God created satan ie. the devil.
Let's take your reasoning into consideration and see if you still agree with yourself. You are saying God created the evil being satan and thus God is ultimately responsible for satans actions. Am I correct to this point, of coarse I am, you and others here have stated this many times and gave kudos for such a response. Now since you hold this as a truth let's apply it to you. You have raised a son, you have given him all he needs to be a responsible citizen, yet he turns out to be a notorious murderer of many people, a vile man full of hate for others, caring not for the actions of his life. How is it by your own reasoning that you should not be picked up and charged for the crimes your son has committed, he received the death penalty for his crimes, shouldn't you have to face the same possible sentence, he is your son after all.
But there's a difference between the two cases isn't there? God is supposed to be omniscient and omnipotent while the father in your example is just a regular person. That, and the father's son has free will which Lucifer and the rest of the angels aren't supposed to have (although maybe this is a modern take on the concept of angels).
March 29, 2013 at 3:29 am (This post was last modified: March 29, 2013 at 3:31 am by Godscreated.)
(March 29, 2013 at 3:06 am)Sagasa Wrote:
(March 28, 2013 at 5:19 pm)Godschild Wrote:
It's quite simple, look in scripture and you will not find anywhere that God created satan ie. the devil.
Let's take your reasoning into consideration and see if you still agree with yourself. You are saying God created the evil being satan and thus God is ultimately responsible for satans actions. Am I correct to this point, of coarse I am, you and others here have stated this many times and gave kudos for such a response. Now since you hold this as a truth let's apply it to you. You have raised a son, you have given him all he needs to be a responsible citizen, yet he turns out to be a notorious murderer of many people, a vile man full of hate for others, caring not for the actions of his life. How is it by your own reasoning that you should not be picked up and charged for the crimes your son has committed, he received the death penalty for his crimes, shouldn't you have to face the same possible sentence, he is your son after all.
But there's a difference between the two cases isn't there? God is supposed to be omniscient and omnipotent while the father in your example is just a regular person. That, and the father's son has free will which Lucifer and the rest of the angels aren't supposed to have (although maybe this is a modern take on the concept of angels).
The angels had and have complete free will.
That's my point God being omniscient and omnipotent, took all the the possibilities in and created, we are told He create out of love, God didn't nor did He have to explain every reason.
(March 29, 2013 at 3:16 am)cato123 Wrote:
(March 29, 2013 at 2:53 am)Godschild Wrote: I'm sure most parents at one time or other said they wish they had never had a child, I know mine did.
Uhhh, no shit!
Quote:Yet they have been nothing but loving to me all the time.
This only proves that your parents are unaware of the bullshit you spew here.
My parents are fully aware as to my beliefs, I have nothing to hide from them.
God loves those who believe and those who do not and the same goes for me, you have no choice in this matter. That puts the matter of total free will to rest.
(March 29, 2013 at 2:53 am)Godschild Wrote: Well, I guess you are avoiding the question I put before you, does that mean I get a free pass on one of your questions?
Because you are not, nor ever will be God the omniscient and omnipotent One you have no idea what you would do. You do not have all the facts to determine such a thing, so sir you are way off base on this subject of creating, wouldn't you agree? God created out of love, not out of prevention, I'm sure most parents at one time or other said they wish they had never had a child, I know mine did. Yet they have been nothing but loving to me all the time.
If you and others persist on making the statement that God does not exist, then you should have to pony up some very specific info, that's the same you ask from Christians.
What question am I avoiding?
You say god created out of love. Ok, fine.
When you create a child (i.e. give birth), do you create arch enemies for that child? Do you expose the child to disease, starvation, disability? Do you test them by taking away all their toys for no reason just to see if they will still love you? Do you require them to worship you under threat of eternal suffering?
If you read the bible and distill it down to its bare essence, god is a lonely, arrogant, vindictive little kid who only gets attention through intimidation.
This is not love. This is abuse.
"Baby, why you make me hit you?"
-Bobby Brown-
"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the universe." -Einstein
(March 29, 2013 at 2:53 am)Godschild Wrote: If you and others persist on making the statement that God does not exist, then you should have to pony up some very specific info, that's the same you ask from Christians.
And, you should apply the same rigor to our claims as you apply to your own, that way, when I have a revelation from Ahura Mazda claiming that he is the uncreated God, you will accept the truth given to me by the divine.
(March 29, 2013 at 2:53 am)Godschild Wrote: Well, I guess you are avoiding the question I put before you, does that mean I get a free pass on one of your questions?
Because you are not, nor ever will be God the omniscient and omnipotent One you have no idea what you would do. You do not have all the facts to determine such a thing, so sir you are way off base on this subject of creating, wouldn't you agree? God created out of love, not out of prevention, I'm sure most parents at one time or other said they wish they had never had a child, I know mine did. Yet they have been nothing but loving to me all the time.
If you and others persist on making the statement that God does not exist, then you should have to pony up some very specific info, that's the same you ask from Christians.
What question am I avoiding?
You say god created out of love. Ok, fine.
When you create a child (i.e. give birth), do you create arch enemies for that child? Do you expose the child to disease, starvation, disability? Do you test them by taking away all their toys for no reason just to see if they will still love you? Do you require them to worship you under threat of eternal suffering?
If you read the bible and distill it down to its bare essence, god is a lonely, arrogant, vindictive little kid who only gets attention through intimidation.
This is not love. This is abuse.
"Baby, why you make me hit you?"
-Bobby Brown-
Answer post 27.
God loves those who believe and those who do not and the same goes for me, you have no choice in this matter. That puts the matter of total free will to rest.
March 29, 2013 at 2:04 pm (This post was last modified: March 29, 2013 at 2:08 pm by Baalzebutt.)
(March 29, 2013 at 1:57 pm)Godschild Wrote: Answer post 27.
It was answered in post 28 (though not by me). It was a relevant answer and does not need to be repeated by me to make it valid.
(March 28, 2013 at 5:31 pm)Rhythm Wrote: Idiotic GC. Firstly, we are responsible for the crimes of our minor children with regards to property and damages. So there are crimes we take responsibility for, all day every day- unlike your silly fucking god. Secondly, you -can- be charged in connection to a crime your child committed if you had knowledge of the crime.
To wit, if my kid runs over your mailbox - I have to pay for it. If your god floods a fucking metropolis they call it an act of god and nary a dime is dispersed (or even asked for, hell, you -gods public relations and customer service dept- seem to be butthurt that the subject would even come up). You aren't asking anyone why they wouldn't accept the same level of responsibility, you're excusing your god for accepting a lesser level of responsibility.
In addition, I would also add that we are not omniscient and did not ahve the foreknowledge that our children would do these things. Your god, by his own definition, did. That makes him 100% responsible.
If I know that a murder os going to take place and I do nothong to prevent it, I am as responsible for that murder as the person who pulled the trigger.
All you are doing is trying to remove your gods responsibility. However, omniscience, omnipotence, and omnipresence mean he is responsible for EVERYTHING!!!!!
"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the universe." -Einstein
