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Ohio School Takes Down Jesus Portrait
#31
RE: Ohio School Takes Down Jesus Portrait
(April 5, 2013 at 12:46 pm)ChadWooters Wrote: So according to you its okay to be religious as long as you don't act on your beliefs.
-in your capacity as a policymaker, or as your justification for policy

Quote: That sounds pretty extreme to me.
Anyone who thinks that sounds extreme probably shouldn't be vested with the power to create or modify policy.

I mean, honestly, if someone feels that they can't perform the duties of an office that is part of the government of the US without violating one of the principles of that government.............why are they running for office?
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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#32
RE: Ohio School Takes Down Jesus Portrait
(April 5, 2013 at 12:53 pm)Rhythm Wrote:
(April 5, 2013 at 12:46 pm)ChadWooters Wrote: So according to you its okay to be religious as long as you don't act on your beliefs.
-in your capacity as a policymaker, or as your justification for policy
To me that sounds like a religious test, just an atheist one. "Do you vow to not allow your conscience to be swayed by religious conviction while performing your function as ...."
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#33
RE: Ohio School Takes Down Jesus Portrait
No, it's a test of policy, as in "congress shall make no law". I really don't see what difficulty the separation of church and state is offering here. Nor have I seen you acknowledge the protection it's offering you, yet.

Lets turn the tables. If a muslim could not help but to act upon his beliefs in policy - and campaigned for or enacted sharia...what would you say to him? That we're a christian country? I doubt it. You;d refer to the separation of church and state, wouldn't you?
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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#34
RE: Ohio School Takes Down Jesus Portrait
I have to side with Chad on this one. Our elected representatives are informed by their whole life's experience in making policy decisions. Requiring they don't consider their religious beliefs and experiences at all goes through secularism and comes out the other side into government restricting free exercise. It's a line to be walked, and it can't be done perfectly, but we should leave the thought-policing to the voters.

That doesn't mean laws passed solely for religious reasons are acceptable.
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#35
RE: Ohio School Takes Down Jesus Portrait
Who implied that they couldn't consider them? Hint: Chad. In his persecution fueled fantasies of what it means to adhere to a secular principle.

Congressman BigonGod can think about jesus all he likes, but I'd politely request that he not enact any policy based upon jesus.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
Reply
#36
RE: Ohio School Takes Down Jesus Portrait
Finish the sentence, "Congress shall make no law respecting the establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof;...". Enacting sharia would fall under establishment. However, if the Muslim believed any particular law should be approved because he felt religiously obligated to support it, he should be free to base his decision on that. Another law-making can just as easily oppose such law on other grounds. That's democracy. But its a step to far to say that lawmakers should not look to their faith for divine guidance in the performance of their job.
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#37
RE: Ohio School Takes Down Jesus Portrait
-by politely, of course, I mean

""I do solemnly swear that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic."
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
Reply
#38
RE: Ohio School Takes Down Jesus Portrait
(April 5, 2013 at 12:41 pm)The Germans are coming Wrote:
(April 5, 2013 at 12:26 pm)Mister Agenda Wrote: The USA is explicitly secular with a Constitional guarantee the government won't interfere in religion. Without that, it's meh. With that, it's 'we don't care about our own laws'.

every damn nation (except fot those of the crazy desert people, some buddists and a few others) is secular.

look here:

Blue - secular
red - not secular
grey - no data

But in a lot of cases I guess some people simply dont care. Here in Europe we simply dont have this polarised debate as you americans have and we are not constantly at each others throats over the issue.
so I guess, no one cares.

edit:

that map is inacurate! In switzerland the states decide individualy without being bothered by the federal goverment if they want to seperate religion and state.

My claim was not that the USA is the only secular state. It was that it is explicitly secular, with a guarantee of government not interfering in religion for or against, as much as is practical. German law guarantees freedom of religion, but does not provide a basis to litigate against government endorsement of a particular religion, say in government-run schools.
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#39
RE: Ohio School Takes Down Jesus Portrait
(April 5, 2013 at 2:20 pm)Rhythm Wrote: -by politely, of course, I mean

""I do solemnly swear that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic."

Cmon, hooker Tongue Leave this poor sucker to his own devices for a bit Wink
Please give me a home where cloud buffalo roam
Where the dear and the strangers can play
Where sometimes is heard a discouraging word
But the skies are not stormy all day
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#40
RE: Ohio School Takes Down Jesus Portrait
A law also being found in Sharia does not automatically make it unConstitutional. Many Muslims consider American law to already be sharia-compliant.
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