A challenge about women and marriage in Islam

[paulpablo]

I thought you said your first sexual experience was when you were 9 or 7? on a different thread and a different topic, so you do have first hand experience of sex as a child and I'm assuming you enjoyed it?

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[quote='Violet Lilly Blossom' pid='432215' dateline='1366158674']

Depends... what is pedophilia as the unknown 'we' know it?

My opinion of pedophilia is neutral, just as my position of any element of sexuality is neutral (barring specifically lesbians and bisexual women, because I've a vested personal interest in the matter). Is there are particular reason that you consider it to be 'such a bad thing'?

Depends... what is pedophilia as the unknown 'we' know it?

Don't understand this question, what is it as the unknown we know it? What does that mean?

I think it's bad just from my feelings towards it basically, I feel disgusted thinking about kids having sex with an adult, that plus I've only ever come across counter arguments to pedophilia being bad on this forum, I've never really had to think about actually why it's bad until talking to people on here who think it's fine. But from my own personal experience having seen documentaries about child abuse and having known a girl who was touched sexually as a child which messed her entire sexual perception up, I just assumed it was common sense that it is bad.

[Violet]

Don't understand this question, what is it as the unknown we know it? What does that mean?

That's what I'm asking. You speak for a mass whom I either have not met, or have not been made aware they share your position. I would treat it as your position, but then you might have an army behind yours... figure I should be prepared.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gkrheaWuShU

Just in case. And I mean: what is the position? I don't know whether I view pedophilia the same as you. Can't know that unless you help me out a bit here...

I think it's bad just from my feelings towards it basically, I feel disgusted thinking about kids having sex with an adult, that plus I've only ever come across counter arguments to pedophilia being bad on this forum, I've never really had to think about actually why it's bad until talking to people on here who think it's fine.

I think bugs are bad just from my feelings towards them (a rather acute phobia), and feel disgust and even hate when thinking about pigeons and shit and their total absence of respect. Doesn't mean that they aren't free to exist and shit and whatnot all they like... outside a varying space from 10 feet away and buildings. I'm speciesist... and a complete xenophobe. Consider it healthy, don't attempt to justify it.

How there can be a counter argument to any -philia is beyond me. How anyone can argue a state of being is beyond me too... I'm going to argue it into changing. Eyup, I'm just that good.

Glad that you're thinking. Haha.

But from my own personal experience having seen documentaries about child abuse and having known a girl who was touched sexually as a child which messed her entire sexual perception up, I just assumed it was common sense that it is bad.

Because child abuse and a consensual sexual activity are the same thing, yes? Why that would suddenly become nonabuse once childhood is removed from the titles?

Touched? Okay cute, a lightweight. How is it 'messed up' and not simply a differing sexual perception?

I mean... isn't perception subjective? Meaning there are *points of view*?

[paulpablo]

reading through the mass of riddles you just typed I guess the answer is yes you do think sex is fine with someone of 9 if the 9 year old says they want it. Also the girl in question that i mentioned was very depressed about the fact she was touched by an old man and had a continual fear of penatration, she would see a phycological specialist to help her out with these thoughts and talk to me about it a lot.

[Violet]

reading through the mass of riddles you just typed I guess the answer is yes you do think sex is fine with someone of 9 if the 9 year old says they want it

You see riddles where there is but clarity? As I told you: perception's a variable

But you're correct, I do believe that sex is fine with someone of nine if the nine year old expresses a desire for it.

And that's whether it's with another nine year old or a 32839473298210 year old.

Where I draw the line isn't age-dependent... if you can find me a two year old with similar-enough attributes to a nine year old: go right for it. My concerns are with expressibility... I mean: my dog wants stuff. Unfortunately, she can't speak english... and I don't know alaskan bark of the middle-western Kenai peninsula dialect.

Fickleness is also an issue, but it isn't age-dependent.

[paulpablo]

reading through the mass of riddles you just typed I guess the answer is yes you do think sex is fine with someone of 9 if the 9 year old says they want it

You see riddles where there is but clarity? As I told you: perception's a variable

But you're correct, I do believe that sex is fine with someone of nine if the nine year old expresses a desire for it.

And that's whether it's with another nine year old or a 32839473298210 year old.

Where I draw the line isn't age-dependent... if you can find me a two year old with similar-enough attributes to a nine year old: go right for it. My concerns are with expressibility... I mean: my dog wants stuff. Unfortunately, she can't speak english... and I don't know alaskan bark of the middle-western Kenai peninsula dialect.

Fickleness is also an issue, but it isn't age-dependent.

forget about age dependancy, do you think anyone on this planet is as mentally mature at the age of 9 as they are when they are 18?

Do you think its better that 9 year olds in general should be being sent to school to be educated rather than getting pregnant, even if they want to have sex?

[Violet]

forget about age dependancy, do you think anyone on this planet is as mentally mature at the age of 9 as they are when they are 18?

Probably not, unless they've either been in stasis or otherwise wholly prevented from experiencing anything not from their own mind. Actually, if you can find a way to stop that thing: you should probably patent and start selling. Make millions off of these retards what can't deal with their own thoughts.

Better question: how is their 'mental maturity' related to their ability to say yes/no? I mean... an 18 year old is probably not as 'mentally mature' as they would be once 5030. Still haven't the faintest idea how it would affect their ability to consent.

Do you think its better that 9 year olds in general should be being sent to school to be educated rather than getting pregnant, even if they want to have sex?

Goal-dependent. I'd hope that the nine-year old individual is being educated *regardless* of whether schooling is a part of that process... but you do realize that a good number of them are capable enough of raising children that it's been evolutionarily passed down as a possibility, yes? Anyway, I don't see how pregnancy necessarily interrupts schooling. Any interference seems like it'd be minor, and I'd imagine the nine-year old's mother or family might be assisting if they've been allowed to carry the child.

It's not as if it's unheard of. Also, if they are pregnant at nine, they have a pretty good shot at the birth coming when they're ten. I don't believe it's ideal, I do believe it's dangerous, I would certainly advise against pregnancy and for learning... right now.

If I was in a desperate battle to keep my race/culture/tribe alive, and our number of men had dwindled dangerously low with a reasonable population of women: *fuck all the bitches*.

Perception... that's what I think. Values change with the times, and the place.

[Muslim Scholar]

I think most of you didn't understand the issue correct

Some of 9 years old boys or girls will want sex and do it (under any system or law)
What are the options?
Do sex with anybody, which can be another boy or girl
Regulate it by marriage
Obviously there are many problems (pregnancy, STD, abortion, emotional problems, etc.) when it is not regulated

Most rational humans will prefer marriage
then who will be more responsible, mature, financially suitable, etc.; another boy/girl or an older partner?
It is obvious that an older partner is more suitable; How much older?
We cannot draw a line for that, it is their acceptance that matter

In Mary Kay Letourneau Case, the woman had sex with a 13 years old boy and was imprisoned because of that, after her release they got married and had children

I think it is ridiculous that she was convicted by that relation
Under the Islamic system it is very easy, she will ask divorce from her ex then get married to the boy (man) after a judge approval.

I don't believe this is the norm but a system that allows for exception is much better than a system that puts restrictions against people wills.
That is why the Islamic system is better than any other system
Suggest any case (how rare is it) then you will find that Islam is suitable for it.

[Kayenneh]

Regulate [sex] by marriage

Pffft! If there's something that has been going on since the birth of mankind, it is that sex will never be regulated, no matter how much the control freaks try.

[Cato]

Under the Islamic system it is very easy, she will ask divorce from her ex then get married to the boy (man) after a judge approval.

Care to describe the difference between Khula and Talaq? You make Khula sound like simple administration, but it isn't. You know this; however, you continue to be less than forthright when defending Islam's grand system for humanity.

[Muslim Scholar]

Regulate [sex] by marriage

Pffft! If there's something that has been going on since the birth of mankind, it is that sex will never be regulated, no matter how much the control freaks try.

We are not discussing the concept of marriage
so we should use sex, marriage equally

If you want to discuss marriage, create a thread and state your view.