Creation and G-d

[Consilius]

If man created sin, that would mean that, prior to the invention, what people did was perfectly moral.

Religion does not hold a monopoly on morality. Morality existed before biblical law.

Yes. Thank you. But also, what we consider 'immoral' is also considered by most religions to be 'sin'. They're closer than you think.

[Esquilax]

Religion does not hold a monopoly on morality. Morality existed before biblical law.

Yes. Thank you. But also, what we consider 'immoral' is also considered by most religions to be 'sin'. They're closer than you think.

To a certain point. But there are certainly things that we today find immoral that, in terms of sin, were merely breaches of etiquette at best; we consider rape to be incredibly immoral, but in the bible it nets you a fine and, depending on where you look, a new bride. Slavery, same deal.

What this shows is that sin and morality might be close, depending on whether you're willing to forgive certain things or not, but that sin as a concept merely co-opts morality that already existed, rather than sin being built into the bedrock of immorality... which is sort of the biblical claim, isn't it?

[justin]

Kinda a sales pitch. Convinving you that NEED their product is just part of the pitch. Much more oppressive than progressive from what I can tell. But yes it all seems out of whack (you're so close to the truth all you have to do is release your blindfold and free yourself). Good seems to have created us sick and damned you for not being well with some ludicris notions thrown in the mixture
(sacrifice, slavery, mistreatment of women, mass genocide, killing pregnant women, playing chess with JOB to show Satan faith, etc.)

[thesummerqueen]

Consilius, we'll stop mocking him and start debating when he comes up with new and worthwhile arguments.

[Strongbad]

Christianity is about as "necessary" as are dragon hunters.

Excuse me, are you going to make an argument or just bag on Christianity because you can't prove him wrong?

LOL. Excuse me, since when does a baseless platitude need to be proven wrong?

[Zen Badger]

Religion does not hold a monopoly on morality. Morality existed before biblical law.

Yes. Thank you. But also, what we consider 'immoral' is also considered by most religions to be 'sin'. They're closer than you think.

You sure about that?

Since the RCC apparently doesn't consider child rape to be a sin.

[Consilius]

Yes. Thank you. But also, what we consider 'immoral' is also considered by most religions to be 'sin'. They're closer than you think.

You sure about that?

Since the RCC apparently doesn't consider child rape to be a sin.

I consider child rape a sin. My parents consider child rape a sin. Most people I know consider child rape a sin. Since the leadership of the RCC isn't handling the problem of child rape adequately does not mean that it changed our doctrine. There are more issues like that that need to get better. But that doesn't mean we believe in every mistake the Pope makes is thoroughly supported by the Christian community. Most people hardly care enough to try.

[The Grand Nudger]

Is apathy a sin, and if so, where is it stated as such?

[Consilius]

Yes. Thank you. But also, what we consider 'immoral' is also considered by most religions to be 'sin'. They're closer than you think.

To a certain point. But there are certainly things that we today find immoral that, in terms of sin, were merely breaches of etiquette at best; we consider rape to be incredibly immoral, but in the bible it nets you a fine and, depending on where you look, a new bride. Slavery, same deal.

What this shows is that sin and morality might be close, depending on whether you're willing to forgive certain things or not, but that sin as a concept merely co-opts morality that already existed, rather than sin being built into the bedrock of immorality... which is sort of the biblical claim, isn't it?

People in the Bible are weird. The thing is that we interpret the Bible based on the culture of our Western democratic society. You'd be surprised how a lot of the crazy stuff that goes on in the Old Testament can be justified by basically good morals found in ancient Hebrew culture.

[The Grand Nudger]

I would be surprised, that's true - mostly because I've seen people attempt to do so and fail so very, very often.