A club exists at my school for the purpose of evangelizing students

[ebg]

But lawful rulings are not based on emotional "quams" of how a single person feels. O.k...marine corp recruiters in school are o.k for some, but not o.k. for others. Who's right? What is offensive? What is harmful? If your offended by my political view is it lawfull to have my political ideas banned. I'm offended by people wearing bluejeans! Shouldn't bluejeans be banned then?

[Fruity]

Excuse me as I clarify my point of view.

I don't have a problem with it. My question is, does Godschild have a problem with it.

Reason is simple. I support teaching kids to be respectful of the LGBTQ community. It sickens me to hear people obsessed with preventing this. I know my sister would probably homeschool her daughters if they would talk about this in public school. So, I support giving youth the tools to choose for themselves what they want to think like. The question is, do theists think the same way, or is there a double standard?

[Esquilax]

Excuse me as I clarify my point of view.

I don't have a problem with it. My question is, does Godschild have a problem with it.

Reason is simple. I support teaching kids to be respectful of the LGBTQ community. It sickens me to hear people obsessed with preventing this. I know my sister would probably homeschool her daughters if they would talk about this in public school. So, I support giving youth the tools to choose for themselves what they want to think like. The question is, do theists think the same way, or is there a double standard?

Exactly: there's both a Christian group and an LGBTQ one at my university, and I'm fine with that, though I do give the christian one a wide berth because otherwise they try to talk you into joining and I'm too polite to just ignore a conversation.

That said, I do know for a fact that the christian group has in the past complained about the queer collective to the administration because it's 'inappropriate,' so I feel like the question here is justified.

[Godscreated]

As long as they comply with the law. By the way I consider any non Christian group of Satan.

So, you're telling me that I am supposed to believe that you would have no problem with Satan spreading his influence among children as long as the law is followed?

Satan spreads his influence to children every day, Satan is not a religion therefore he was not tossed out of the school system, Christianity was. So Satan has a free reign in the schools everyday, he needs no club. So he is able to work on the children till one or some break and then several children are dead from shootings, stabbings and etc. While Christian principles were taught in our schools there were no such tragedies. I wander if anyone ever considers this outside of Christianity?

So as far as Satan being in schools, the laws of this land threw the doors wide open for him.

---

You are pulling a double standard you accuse Christians of doing, so either stop or quite complaining.

How?

Because you are spreading unsubstantiated statements by a teen who has no other place to go and complain, this teen has run out of ears where she lives, so she came to the gullible. You say that Christians use unsubstantiated statements and that we are wrong for doing so, so stop complaining or stop using the unsubstantiated cries of this teen.

---

Atheist have no belief so they have no purpose and they want last as a school club

Fine. Their purpose could be to rescue kids from ignorance. Would you be fine with this? I'm talking flyers, power points, seminars, regular meetings, contact cards, and anything that could convince them that belief in their god is absurd. Would you be fine with it?

To rescue from ignorance, this is a subjective statement that children have no right in making, a club should never be formed to directly destroy the rights of others. To have such a club it would require direct confrontation with another club, the Christian group is not confronting any other group or club, they are openly promoting what they believe with no negative statements toward others. If they were the school board would put a stop to it, this is only sensible reasoning, wouldn't you agree the adults in charge of the schools would be making sure these children are not stepping over the line.
So no I would not be in favor of a club trying to undermine another, including Christian clubs.

If you can't picture this, then try a Satanic group. That they passed out flyers promoting fun and games then as the kids took a bite they were presented with satanic rituals.

See my response to FaithnoMore, as for an actual club if they are allowed to have a club then I have no right to object under current
law, would I like it no, this is because of my Christian belief. This is why I said that an atheist club or atheist can't complain with convection because of non belief.

Because your reply just tells me that you'd be fine with it for the reason that it wouldn't last. What if said club did last? Would it be fine?

I believe the above response answers this also.

[Faith No More]

I think the Christians here are missing the point of the objections(at least my objections). These people are specifically proselytizing to the youth, because they are more susceptible to manipulation and have yet to carve out a concrete self-identity. It conjures up images of a predator stalking prey, sniffing out the weakest of the herd in order to go in for the easy kill.

[Fruity]

Godschild wrote:

To rescue from ignorance, this is a subjective statement that children have no right in making, a club should never be formed to directly destroy the rights of others. To have such a club it would require direct confrontation with another club, the Christian group is not confronting any other group or club, they are openly promoting what they believe with no negative statements toward others. If they were the school board would put a stop to it, this is only sensible reasoning, wouldn't you agree the adults in charge of the schools would be making sure these children are not stepping over the line.
So no I would not be in favor of a club trying to undermine another, including Christian clubs.

But Christian clubs want to rescue non-believers from hell. If they're going to hell in the first place, they had to live a life that was not according to scripture. So you say that to rescue from ignorance is to destroy the rights of others (which is a pretty weird right), then to say that people are going to hell because they were in darkness is also destroying the rights of others or undermining, or anything like it. How is an atheist group trying to educate people about their mistake in beliefs any different than a Christian group trying to educate people about their mistake of living in darkness?

Anyway, I just wanted to clarify that one, though you answered that you would allow a Satanic group. So that's cool. Though I pretty much doubt that Christians would actually allow it. I give you the benefit of the doubt, though. Just because I really have no other options.

[Godscreated]

Godschild wrote:

To rescue from ignorance, this is a subjective statement that children have no right in making, a club should never be formed to directly destroy the rights of others. To have such a club it would require direct confrontation with another club, the Christian group is not confronting any other group or club, they are openly promoting what they believe with no negative statements toward others. If they were the school board would put a stop to it, this is only sensible reasoning, wouldn't you agree the adults in charge of the schools would be making sure these children are not stepping over the line.
So no I would not be in favor of a club trying to undermine another, including Christian clubs.

But Christian clubs want to rescue non-believers from hell. If they're going to hell in the first place, they had to live a life that was not according to scripture. So you say that to rescue from ignorance is to destroy the rights of others (which is a pretty weird right), then to say that people are going to hell because they were in darkness is also destroying the rights of others or undermining, or anything like it. How is an atheist group trying to educate people about their mistake in beliefs any different than a Christian group trying to educate people about their mistake of living in darkness?

Anyway, I just wanted to clarify that one, though you answered that you would allow a Satanic group. So that's cool. Though I pretty much doubt that Christians would actually allow it. I give you the benefit of the doubt, though. Just because I really have no other options.

What I was referring to was the passing out of material that directly attacked the Christian Club, telling people they are ignorant IMO is an attack, especially if it's children.

[Marnie]

So, you're telling me that I am supposed to believe that you would have no problem with Satan spreading his influence among children as long as the law is followed?

Satan spreads his influence to children every day, Satan is not a religion therefore he was not tossed out of the school system, Christianity was. So Satan has a free reign in the schools everyday, he needs no club. So he is able to work on the children till one or some break and then several children are dead from shootings, stabbings and etc. While Christian principles were taught in our schools there were no such tragedies. I wander if anyone ever considers this outside of Christianity?

So as far as Satan being in schools, the laws of this land threw the doors wide open for him.

---

How?

Because you are spreading unsubstantiated statements by a teen who has no other place to go and complain, this teen has run out of ears where she lives, so she came to the gullible. You say that Christians use unsubstantiated statements and that we are wrong for doing so, so stop complaining or stop using the unsubstantiated cries of this teen.

---

Atheist have no belief so they have no purpose and they want last as a school club

Fine. Their purpose could be to rescue kids from ignorance. Would you be fine with this? I'm talking flyers, power points, seminars, regular meetings, contact cards, and anything that could convince them that belief in their god is absurd. Would you be fine with it?

To rescue from ignorance, this is a subjective statement that children have no right in making, a club should never be formed to directly destroy the rights of others. To have such a club it would require direct confrontation with another club, the Christian group is not confronting any other group or club, they are openly promoting what they believe with no negative statements toward others. If they were the school board would put a stop to it, this is only sensible reasoning, wouldn't you agree the adults in charge of the schools would be making sure these children are not stepping over the line.
So no I would not be in favor of a club trying to undermine another, including Christian clubs.

If you can't picture this, then try a Satanic group. That they passed out flyers promoting fun and games then as the kids took a bite they were presented with satanic rituals.

See my response to FaithnoMore, as for an actual club if they are allowed to have a club then I have no right to object under current
law, would I like it no, this is because of my Christian belief. This is why I said that an atheist club or atheist can't complain with convection because of non belief.

Because your reply just tells me that you'd be fine with it for the reason that it wouldn't last. What if said club did last? Would it be fine?

I believe the above response answers this also.

If I wanted to complain I could tell someone else. I haven't complained to the school about this or caused a hubbub. Many people in real life do not KNOW I'm an atheist. They just assume white person=Christian. I tell people I'm an atheist if directly asked.

I can't post the website, PDFs, or Facebook page because then you would know where I lived! They say multiple times operating out of the area of ----------. The website lists the schools it operates in. I'm pulling quotes directly from there website in some of my posts. I blank out words so no one can Google them and find my school.

[Mister Agenda]

bible clubs are a violaion of church and state in the sense that they are using public resources.... that are required by federal law.... for religous purposes.... there might not be laws like this in other countries.... but here in america.... people are not allowed to use taxpayer funds on religous services..... which is what your school is doing, if this was a science club that would be educational, but teaching witchcraft (or evangelistic christianity or whatever those whackjobs are calling it) is a waste of taxpayer money and is unconstitutional, because federal law requires public education it is a direct violation of the first amendment,

good luck with your lawsuit

I would advise against it.

http://abcnews.go.com/US/story?id=92875&page=1

It's settled law. It would have been better for everyone if schools weren't a religous battleground, but at this point the only effective opposition is for atheists and minority religions to start their own clubs.

---

Besides what's the big deal, they are doing what they believe in and what they believe will be good for others. No different than you wanting to teach others they are wrong, equal ground for differing views.

Except that there isn't anyone on the other side. I know of no out reach clubs for atheists. No one proselytizes for the non-supernatural in this way. Whether or not it is legal, it is definitely slimy.

There are atheist clubs, usually at the HS level, mostly aimed at actually providing a club for atheist students. However, most American atheists agree that 'going after' young children is inappropriate, it's unlikely we'll use the same tactics to counteract the Good News Club type of organizations at the grade school level. It just isn't right to do an end-run around parents like that.

---

Atheism has no belief so how can you have a club, how can you base a club on non belief, to have a club you need to have something to stand on besides believing in nothingness.

A club couldn't be based on mere atheism (or theism). It can, however, be a place where atheist students can enjoy each others company without people like you sneering at them and lying about them, which you just did when you said atheists believe in nothingness. We don't believe in God. I don't believe true nothingness ever has or can exist.

You do not know he's telling the truth about student being pressure, you're repeating unsubstantiated statement. You are pulling a double standard you accuse Christians of doing, so either stop or quite complaining.

I know about Good News and similar clubs operating in grade schools when kids are way too impressionable for it to be fair to recruit them like that. In Middle School it's not so bad, and in HS I have no beef, but 6-10 year olds? Really?

Atheist have no belief so they have no purpose and they want last as a school club.

Not having one particular belief is not the same thing as having no belief. Atheists can have lots of beliefs and lots of purposes...and atheist clubs are springing up in High Schools across the country and some of them have been around for years. But I've read enough of your posts not to expect honesty. You've been around here long enough to know what you're saying is false.

The funny thing is that even if you're right about your own religion, you won't make the cut for heaven. The Bible is clear on how we will know a disciple of Christ and you are the opposite of it.

[Mister Agenda]

These clubs exist in my area in high schools and middle schools. They are run by an outside missionary group located in the northern area of my state. The only purpose of this club is teaching evangelization to Christians and converting non-Christian students to Christianity. Kids are apparently invited to these clubs and presented the gospel and then made to confess Jesus as their savior. They sign a card saying they confess Jesus as their savior or they have more questions to ask before confessing. Group leaders are supposed to report to headquarters how many students have been converted to Christianity.

Good for them!

You know, although I wouldn't approve of an atheist group using these kinds of tactics in a grade school, the day is coming soon when minority religous groups like Muslims will. Using the same approach, they'll be able to get parents to sign their kids up without ever having to use the words 'Mohammed' or 'Qu'ran' or 'Allah'. They can just say it's an event for children to learn about God and good values after school. I don't approve of Muslims using those tactics either, but I can appreciate how quickly certain people will come to see why it might not be the best thing for religious groups to have free access to our first-graders.

---

What I was referring to was the passing out of material that directly attacked the Christian Club, telling people they are ignorant IMO is an attack, especially if it's children.

You don't rescue people from ignorance by telling them they are ignorant. You rescue people from ignorance by giving them knowledge.

As a side note, Satanism IS a religion and the law that allows Good News Clubs to operate in grade schools allows the Temple of Satan or the Church of Set to do the same, and there's no legal recourse a school has in that situation but to shut down all of its extracurricular programs...and I think the Church of Set would still have a court case if it was done specifically to exclude them from inviting children from a meeting with baloons and cookies where they can learn lessons from the Bible (the Satanic Bible, of course).