Explain to me the math behind redemption

[Zarith]

I think you mean "if they sacrificed themselves for me," and no, according to the doctrine of sin, you couldn't.

This is basic Christian doctrine. By that I do not mean to commend it to you as true. I mean rather to say that some simple research into Christian doctrine would probably answer your question better than what I have to offer.

I'm only repeating/summarizing what many, many Christians have said to me over the years. Don't blame me if they can't get their story straight!

[The Grand Nudger]

Like I said, the semantics of "He took the punishment I was going to receive" seem to me to be misleading. Perhaps you have been mislead by them. It's pretty obvious that "the plan" was not for Jesus to suffer eternally, and yet, it seems to me that Christians speak as though it was when they proffer such explanations of the redemption.

I don't know if they're misleading, per se, as a proclamation of faith (I'm certainly willing to accept that some people think of it this way - and that's all we have with regards to this) - but they certainly don't seem to have any substance to offer when asked to explain it.

I did not commend a specific theory of the redemption and claim that it obviously "worked this way." I criticized a specific theory of the redemption and claimed that it obviously "did not work this way."

What led you to the conclusion that it didn't (work that way)? What was obvious about that?

I tentatively put forward an alternative way of thinking about the redemption, but I certainly didn't claim that it was obviously correct.

Like I said, I'm no theologian. I haven't thought about the redemption much.

I appreciate that, but I don't see much of a difference - and why, if I might ask, haven't you given much thought to the redemption? That's what makes Christianity...well..christianity. The christ bit is a title, not a name, after all. How does that work, being evangelical about something you haven't given much thought to?

[Drich]

If any 1 person's sins are grievous enough to warrant an eternity in hell, how does someone else 'pay for' the sins of everybody without themselves spending an eternity in hell?

Resurrection.

Hell is death. Resurrection is life.

[ReasonableRuben]

What led you to the conclusion that it didn't (work that way)? What was obvious about that?

Every credible theological account of the redemption that we have lacks any mention that Jesus saved the world by suffering eternal punishment. No-one claims that. He is said to be "seated at the right hand of the Father." I have zero reasons to believe that Jesus is in hell right now.

I appreciate that, but I don't see much of a difference - and why, if I might ask, haven't you given much thought to the redemption? That's what makes Christianity...well..christianity. The christ bit is a title, not a name, after all. How does that work, being evangelical about something you haven't given much thought to?

I don't see what relevance my motivation or lack thereof for not having done much theological study on the redemption theories has to the conversation, so I won't answer. sorry

[The Grand Nudger]

Every credible theological account of the redemption that we have lacks any mention that Jesus saved the world by suffering eternal punishment. No-one claims that. He is said to be "seated at the right hand of the Father." I have zero reasons to believe that Jesus is in hell right now.

I was speaking more to the notion of his taking upon himself or erasing the punishment I was going to receive. Perhaps others might wonder over the duration but not I. Your statement was general enough that it seemed fitting - and in fairness I should have been more clear - after all..the moment we go down the jesus road who knows what the fuck the other guy is talking about, amiright?

I don't see what relevance my motivation or lack thereof for not having done much theological study on the redemption theories has to the conversation, so I won't answer. sorry

Hey, np bud "you decide your own level of involvement".

[ronedee]

If any 1 person's sins are grievous enough to warrant an eternity in hell, how does someone else 'pay for' the sins of everybody without themselves spending an eternity in hell?

And I'm wondering what difference it would make in your case (and others) to have an answer to this question?

Considering the lack of evidence/proof and all, that God even exists for you. Whats the point?

Aint it like someone bragging about their lush, green lawn, or their honor student son? What use (besides curious entertainment) is it to you? Just saying...

Any answer will cue-up the usual suspects to hang targets, take shots and pat each other on the ass.

[The Grand Nudger]

It would give a person a glimpse into your head, even if it wouldn't give them a glimpse of the divine Ron.

[Something completely different]

And I'm wondering what difference it would make in your case (and others) to have an answer to this question?

Considering the lack of evidence/proof and all, that God even exists for you. Whats the point?

Aint it like someone bragging about their lush, green lawn, or their honor student son? What use (besides curious entertainment) is it to you? Just saying...

Any answer will cue-up the usual suspects to hang targets, take shots and pat each other on the ass.

To make a case against something you must understand it.

[ronedee]

To make a case against something you must understand it.

LOL! Well.... this is a turn of events....mein fuhrer!

[Something completely different]

LOL! Well.... this is a turn of events....mein fuhrer!

Now how about an actual argument?