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Jesus - not even a nice guy?
#1
Jesus - not even a nice guy?
One of the things I get from anyone and everyone when Jesus is brought up is that basically whatever he was, if he existed he was a really decent person well ahead of his time.

I have to say that much of the evidence from the gospel doesn't actually back up this moderate claim.

Consider this from Mark:

“Jesus left that place and went to the vicinity of Tyre. He entered a house and did not want anyone to know it; yet he could not keep his presence secret. In fact, as soon as she heard about him, a woman whose little daughter was possessed by an impure spirit came and fell at his feet. The woman was a Greek, born in Syrian Phoenicia. She begged Jesus to drive the demon out of her daughter.
“First let the children eat all they want,” he told her, “for it is not right to take the children’s bread and toss it to the dogs.”
“Lord,” she replied, “even the dogs under the table eat the children’s crumbs.”
Then he told her, “For such a reply, you may go; the demon has left your daughter.”
She went home and found her child lying on the bed, and the demon gone.

We find the same story in Matthew although the woman in question is a Canaanite:

Leaving that place, Jesus withdrew to the region of Tyre and Sidon. A Canaanite woman from that vicinity came to him, crying out, “Lord, Son of David, have mercy on me! My daughter is demon-possessed and suffering terribly.”
Jesus did not answer a word. So his disciples came to him and urged him, “Send her away, for she keeps crying out after us.”
He answered, “I was sent only to the lost sheep of Israel.”
The woman came and knelt before him. “Lord, help me!” she said.
He replied, “It is not right to take the children’s bread and toss it to the dogs.”
“Yes it is, Lord,” she said. “Even the dogs eat the crumbs that fall from their master’s table.”
Then Jesus said to her, “Woman, you have great faith! Your request is granted.” And her daughter was healed at that moment.


Jesus appears to be hiding from the crowds. He does this quite a lot in Mark. Stamina doesn't appear to be his strong suit.
In both versions of the story we have a desperate mother begging Jesus for help as her daughter is possessed by a demon and consequently in need.
I was expecting this story to play out just the same as all the others, in other words that Jesus would simply execute the cure immediately and then offer something along the lines of “Believe in me and you will be saved.”
According to Matthew, however, he simply ignores her completely and only acts when his disciples ask him to do something – even if that is to send her away. Mark misses this detail, however his response is the same (near as can be) in both cases.
In essence he says “I am only here for the Jews.” and therefore has no interest in helping a non-jew.
Actually he goes further than this: “It is not right to take the children’s bread and toss it to the dogs.”
Lets analyse this sentence:
It is not right = Its wrong
To take the Children's = To take The Children of Israel's
Bread = Jesus himself. This is an obsession that runs through his entire ministry.
And toss it to the dogs = Throw it over to the non-Jews.
So Jesus is not interested in helping this woman because she is not Jewish. That is astonishing. Even if he does feel he is here only for the Jews – as he says – surely he has the basic humanity to want to help a begging, desperate mother?
We need to consider here that this is supposed to be Jesus – the Son of God with what we must assume is an unlimited ability to cure and help people. It is not like we could argue that by helping this woman he won't be able to help someone else later on. This is simply diabolical.
Of course this now raises a basic question over all the other miracles, cures and casting outs that he has done to date. Were these all only to Jews? Does Jesus see himself as purely the Jewish Messiah rather than the Messiah that about 2 billion people across the face of the planet now worship?
Lets continue the story. I will revert to Mark's version as it is a Greek woman and I have a soft spot for them (I married one):
She replies to Jesus: “Lord , even the dogs under the table eat the children’s crumbs.”
I have to say when I read that answer it blew me away. It was an absolutely brilliant response and it appears Jesus felt the same way:
Then he told her, “For such a reply, you may go; the demon has left your daughter.”
She went home and found her child lying on the bed, and the demon gone.
Now look at Jesus' response in turn. He agrees to cure her daughter because she has answered so well. This immediately makes it clear that had she not been smart and clever enough to respond he would not have bothered. In short he patted the dog on the head.
It is also worth considering her brilliant reply a moment. This, in my opinion, is one of the most prescient things said in the whole of the Bible. The dogs will inherit the crumbs (Jesus Body) when the children have finished with him. Its a pity that Jesus didn't say it really. Sadly it doesn't seem to have occurred to him. I wonder if he understood it even when she said it.
If I were planning to tweet about this it would be under the hash-tag #Messiahfail#
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#2
RE: Jesus - not even a nice guy?
Nope.

[Image: enhanced-buzz-9667-1270841394-4.jpg]


You can't trust the bastard at all.
Reply
#3
RE: Jesus - not even a nice guy?
He apparently was shitty carpenter, too. Angel



Reply
#4
RE: Jesus - not even a nice guy?
Good point. Jesus was a lousy carpenter. When you consider that in the catacombs under the Vatican there are enough pieces of the cross to build Noah's ark it is perhaps, odd that there isn't a single piece of furniture built by Jesus.

Notice that after Jesus' death not one of the remaining disciples suggested that they go around to collect his works. One must assume that these had already fallen apart and were therefore not worth gathering. In fact this explains why the crowds chose Jesus over Barnabas for execution. These weren't simply Jews - they were his ex-customers. These were the people whose tables had collapsed, hat-stands had fallen over and had suffered personal injury from his bed-heads. Apparently they were all utterly pissed off at this "No money back" guarantee.

Also worth considering that if a piece of toast with the image of Jesus burned upon it sold on ebay for $40,000 a bed side table with "JC AD 20" carved into the bottom of it would sell for retirement money. Strangely such a lot has never come up. One wonders why.....
Reply
#5
RE: Jesus - not even a nice guy?
Well done, sir.
Reply
#6
RE: Jesus - not even a nice guy?
The character advocates the position of thought crime. That takes him out of the running for a "nice guy" title all by itself.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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#7
RE: Jesus - not even a nice guy?
(June 7, 2013 at 12:22 am)max-greece Wrote: One of the things I get from anyone and everyone when Jesus is brought up is that basically whatever he was, if he existed he was a really decent person well ahead of his time.

I have to say that much of the evidence from the gospel doesn't actually back up this moderate claim.

Consider this from Mark:

“Jesus left that place and went to the vicinity of Tyre. He entered a house and did not want anyone to know it; yet he could not keep his presence secret. In fact, as soon as she heard about him, a woman whose little daughter was possessed by an impure spirit came and fell at his feet. The woman was a Greek, born in Syrian Phoenicia. She begged Jesus to drive the demon out of her daughter.
“First let the children eat all they want,” he told her, “for it is not right to take the children’s bread and toss it to the dogs.”
“Lord,” she replied, “even the dogs under the table eat the children’s crumbs.”
Then he told her, “For such a reply, you may go; the demon has left your daughter.”
She went home and found her child lying on the bed, and the demon gone.

We find the same story in Matthew although the woman in question is a Canaanite:

Leaving that place, Jesus withdrew to the region of Tyre and Sidon. A Canaanite woman from that vicinity came to him, crying out, “Lord, Son of David, have mercy on me! My daughter is demon-possessed and suffering terribly.”
Jesus did not answer a word. So his disciples came to him and urged him, “Send her away, for she keeps crying out after us.”
He answered, “I was sent only to the lost sheep of Israel.”
The woman came and knelt before him. “Lord, help me!” she said.
He replied, “It is not right to take the children’s bread and toss it to the dogs.”
“Yes it is, Lord,” she said. “Even the dogs eat the crumbs that fall from their master’s table.”
Then Jesus said to her, “Woman, you have great faith! Your request is granted.” And her daughter was healed at that moment.


Jesus appears to be hiding from the crowds. He does this quite a lot in Mark. Stamina doesn't appear to be his strong suit.
In both versions of the story we have a desperate mother begging Jesus for help as her daughter is possessed by a demon and consequently in need.
I was expecting this story to play out just the same as all the others, in other words that Jesus would simply execute the cure immediately and then offer something along the lines of “Believe in me and you will be saved.”
According to Matthew, however, he simply ignores her completely and only acts when his disciples ask him to do something – even if that is to send her away. Mark misses this detail, however his response is the same (near as can be) in both cases.
In essence he says “I am only here for the Jews.” and therefore has no interest in helping a non-jew.
Actually he goes further than this: “It is not right to take the children’s bread and toss it to the dogs.”
Lets analyse this sentence:
It is not right = Its wrong
To take the Children's = To take The Children of Israel's
Bread = Jesus himself. This is an obsession that runs through his entire ministry.
And toss it to the dogs = Throw it over to the non-Jews.
So Jesus is not interested in helping this woman because she is not Jewish. That is astonishing. Even if he does feel he is here only for the Jews – as he says – surely he has the basic humanity to want to help a begging, desperate mother?
We need to consider here that this is supposed to be Jesus – the Son of God with what we must assume is an unlimited ability to cure and help people. It is not like we could argue that by helping this woman he won't be able to help someone else later on. This is simply diabolical.
Of course this now raises a basic question over all the other miracles, cures and casting outs that he has done to date. Were these all only to Jews? Does Jesus see himself as purely the Jewish Messiah rather than the Messiah that about 2 billion people across the face of the planet now worship?
Lets continue the story. I will revert to Mark's version as it is a Greek woman and I have a soft spot for them (I married one):
She replies to Jesus: “Lord , even the dogs under the table eat the children’s crumbs.”
I have to say when I read that answer it blew me away. It was an absolutely brilliant response and it appears Jesus felt the same way:
Then he told her, “For such a reply, you may go; the demon has left your daughter.”
She went home and found her child lying on the bed, and the demon gone.
Now look at Jesus' response in turn. He agrees to cure her daughter because she has answered so well. This immediately makes it clear that had she not been smart and clever enough to respond he would not have bothered. In short he patted the dog on the head.
It is also worth considering her brilliant reply a moment. This, in my opinion, is one of the most prescient things said in the whole of the Bible. The dogs will inherit the crumbs (Jesus Body) when the children have finished with him. Its a pity that Jesus didn't say it really. Sadly it doesn't seem to have occurred to him. I wonder if he understood it even when she said it.
If I were planning to tweet about this it would be under the hash-tag #Messiahfail#

Maybe the hash-tag should read #maxgreeces-messiahfail# because maybe Christ was not documented as the person you thought him to be.
Reply
#8
RE: Jesus - not even a nice guy?
Drich,

I don't think hash-tags can be that big. Are you saying, reading those 2 versions of that story that you have no problem with Jesus' behaviour? That you already understood Jesus was this bigoted?
I certainly agree that Christ was not documented as the person I thought him to be. I have a feeling I am not unique in that.
Reply
#9
RE: Jesus - not even a nice guy?
(June 7, 2013 at 12:50 am)max-greece Wrote: Good point. Jesus was a lousy carpenter. When you consider that in the catacombs under the Vatican there are enough pieces of the cross to build Noah's ark it is perhaps, odd that there isn't a single piece of furniture built by Jesus.

Notice that after Jesus' death not one of the remaining disciples suggested that they go around to collect his works. One must assume that these had already fallen apart and were therefore not worth gathering. In fact this explains why the crowds chose Jesus over Barnabas for execution. These weren't simply Jews - they were his ex-customers. These were the people whose tables had collapsed, hat-stands had fallen over and had suffered personal injury from his bed-heads. Apparently they were all utterly pissed off at this "No money back" guarantee.

Also worth considering that if a piece of toast with the image of Jesus burned upon it sold on ebay for $40,000 a bed side table with "JC AD 20" carved into the bottom of it would sell for retirement money. Strangely such a lot has never come up. One wonders why.....

The word in the Greek that describes Jesus occupation is:
Transliteration
tektōn

Pronunciation
te'k-tōn (Key)

While it can mean a wood worker or builder of ships, it can also mean a general laborer. Given the region and the over all lack of structural trees, His families status, and the over all humble way in which he presents Himself. Christ would most likely have been a general laborer
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#10
RE: Jesus - not even a nice guy?
Quote:Christ would most likely have been a general laborer

And obviously Drippy you have not absorbed the implications of that?
Reply



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