Our server costs ~$56 per month to run. Please consider donating or becoming a Patron to help keep the site running. Help us gain new members by following us on Twitter and liking our page on Facebook!
Current time: April 20, 2024, 5:21 am

Thread Rating:
  • 1 Vote(s) - 4 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
What is "FAITH"
#1
What is "FAITH"
Ok, this is a very sensitive and controversial topic for religious people and they are highly intolerant towards discussing any and all aspects of this, at least in my country they are, but over here i don't think you people would have any issues.Big Grin
So, I want your opinions about how you think people define the concept of faith in religious contexts, when they say "you have to have faith" what do they mean? From what I've observed faith comes in where logic fails, sensible religious people try their best to logically explain things, but because they are defending religion, they are bound to be logically incoherent at some point, when all evidence points against them, that is when they say "You need to have faith, for believing in the unseen is a true sign of faith!" Many islamic scholars believe this to be a fundamental aspect of islamic beliefs.
So for me, faith is nothing more than a wild card to replace and cover up logical fallacies and absurd claims, what is your opinion? I'd definitely like to hear the opinion of those who are agnostics and or religious.

P.S
don't give me the literal definition of word faith, i am discussing faith as it is described in religions, especially islam! because that is where i came from!

looking forward to thoughtful responses. Wink
Reply
#2
RE: What is "FAITH"
I feel faith is a necessity of life to some extent. However there is faith that is grounded in some reasonable assumptions, and there is faith in the sense of religion.

For example I have faith that tomorrow the sun will rise, that I won't get a terminal disease in the next 10 years and that the train I enter to go on a vacation will not derail. These are all assumptions of faith which make my life liveable.

[Image: Popes-faith_o_14197.jpg]
"Men see clearly enough the barbarity of all ages — except their own!" — Ernest Crosby.
Reply
#3
RE: What is "FAITH"
'Faith' is trust. I argue that it is formed logically, and applied in cases when the outcome is not certain.
Trust is formed based upon past experiences in a relationship. Religion is a relationship with God, which is formed through experiences with him. These experiences are not miracles or revelations, simply subjective encounters of what is good in the world.
So you use faith when you are not sure what will happen, but faith has to build up from memories. It can not be pulled out of thin air.
Also, like you can never KNOW whether or not your friend is going to lend you money, you can never KNOW whether or not God is real. I don't get how people claim to know that there is a God in a religion that preaches faith and doubt, which by definition mean "I'm not sure."
Reply
#4
RE: What is "FAITH"
(June 20, 2013 at 4:01 am)littleendian Wrote: I feel faith is a necessity of life to some extent. However there is faith that is grounded in some reasonable assumptions, and there is faith in the sense of religion.

For example I have faith that tomorrow the sun will rise, that I won't get a terminal disease in the next 10 years and that the train I enter to go on a vacation will not derail. These are all assumptions of faith which make my life liveable.

I agree with you in spirit, but not in practice; you gotta be wary about giving theists another out, though the "you have faith too!" argument has its own set of interesting implications they don't really want to think about. I wouldn't call the examples of the faith you have faith at all; I'd call that reasonable expectations.

You have evidence for the rising and setting of the sun, as it's done so every day for as long as you've lived, assuming you haven't spent any time at the extreme edges of the globe, but even then we have demonstrated explanations for why it stays dark for days, or vice versa. You have a history behind your expectation that you won't get a terminal disease, but importantly you aren't taking that expectation as a binding condition of the world, either; if you did contract something bad, you wouldn't deny it because of your experience that it's a rare occurrence for you. You know that mostly trains don't derail, so you've got a probability calculation, however loose, to show that your train most likely will not derail. And if you see that, say, one of the carriages is missing a wall, or a set of wheels is askew, you don't then expect the same risk of derailing as a fully functional train. You factor the evidence available to you into the equation.

Faith, in a religious, capital F sense, is a belief that justifies itself, and that remains in spite of evidence, and not because of it. When a theist falls back on faith, what they're doing is saying, "I'm okay with not having evidence for this claim, but you aren't, so let me pretend like I have some by employing a term the dominant cultural influence of my religion has twisted into a righteous concept." Faith is the excuse you give that lets you retain belief in a claim without having evidence for it, or while the preponderance of the evidence is against you. It's the emergency brakes on an argument the theist is losing.

Now, to be fair, this isn't just a religious Faith; conspiracy theorists and believers in pseudo-science also employ it, but that doesn't make it any better, either. It's just admitting defeat without having to deal with the image of having lost.
"YOU take the hard look in the mirror. You are everything that is wrong with this world. The only thing important to you, is you." - ronedee

Want to see more of my writing? Check out my (safe for work!) site, Unprotected Sects!
Reply
#5
RE: What is "FAITH"
[Image: images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQ-MetR1JWcblOm2aYLsl8...M-dcvJg21Q]
[Image: mybannerglitter06eee094.gif]
If you're not supposed to ride faster than your guardian angel can fly then mine had better get a bloody SR-71.
Reply
#6
RE: What is "FAITH"
(June 20, 2013 at 5:26 am)Consilius Wrote: I don't get how people claim to know that there is a God in a religion that preaches faith and doubt, which by definition mean "I'm not sure."

Easy:

Consilius Wrote:Religion is a relationship with God, which is formed through experiences with him.

Cognitive dissonance at its best.
"It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it" ~ Aristotle
Reply
#7
RE: What is "FAITH"
faith is the excuse people give for believing in something with no good reason and no evidence
'The more I learn about people the more I like my dog'- Mark Twain

'You can have all the faith you want in spirits, and the afterlife, and heaven and hell, but when it comes to this world, don't be an idiot. Cause you can tell me you put your faith in God to put you through the day, but when it comes time to cross the road, I know you look both ways.' - Dr House

“Young earth creationism is essentially the position that all of modern science, 90% of living scientists and 98% of living biologists, all major university biology departments, every major science journal, the American Academy of Sciences, and every major science organization in the world, are all wrong regarding the origins and development of life….but one particular tribe of uneducated, bronze aged, goat herders got it exactly right.” - Chuck Easttom

"If my good friend Doctor Gasparri speaks badly of my mother, he can expect to get punched.....You cannot provoke. You cannot insult the faith of others. You cannot make fun of the faith of others. There is a limit." - Pope Francis on freedom of speech
Reply
#8
RE: What is "FAITH"
King James Version - Hebrews 11:1 "Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen."

It's one of my mother's favorite verses.
Everything I needed to know about life I learned on Dagobah.
Reply
#9
RE: What is "FAITH"
I've always said that faith is nothing more than indulging the desire for purpose.
Reply
#10
RE: What is "FAITH"
When I was a believer I saw faith as being like trust, in that it was based on some form of evidence. Jesus had explained to his disciples that there would be signs, and the faithful would recognize those signs and be strengthened by the knowledge that the time of his second coming was near. I think that for believers, faith really is "evidence-based". It's just that the "evidence" is either very flimsy or only recognizable as a sign if you convince yourself that it is. Thus, when the new pope was chosen recently, a cloud formation over Florida that had a vague bird-like shape was determined to be a sign of approval from god. And if that isn't silly enough, remember that crowds of worshipers will show up to venerate the moldy spot on your window that looks like the virgin Mary.
"Well, evolution is a theory. It is also a fact. And facts and theories are different things, not rungs in a hierarchy of increasing certainty. Facts are the world's data. Theories are structures of ideas that explain and interpret facts. Facts don't go away when scientists debate rival theories to explain them. Einstein's theory of gravitation replaced Newton's in this century, but apples didn't suspend themselves in midair, pending the outcome. And humans evolved from ape- like ancestors whether they did so by Darwin's proposed mechanism or by some other yet to be discovered."

-Stephen Jay Gould
Reply



Possibly Related Threads...
Thread Author Replies Views Last Post
  At what point does faith become insanity? Fake Messiah 64 3816 May 8, 2023 at 10:37 pm
Last Post: The Architect Of Fate
  The soft toys parents hope connect kids to their faith zebo-the-fat 13 1235 October 31, 2021 at 3:50 am
Last Post: Paleophyte
  Baha'i faith Figbash 5 928 April 13, 2020 at 12:31 pm
Last Post: onlinebiker
  [Serious] Comfort in Faith at Death Shell B 142 10808 August 4, 2019 at 11:30 am
Last Post: Catholic_Lady
  Atheist who is having a crisis of faith emilsein 204 12207 April 29, 2019 at 6:41 pm
Last Post: Losty
  Faith industry Graufreud 8 826 August 8, 2018 at 6:54 am
Last Post: Gawdzilla Sama
  My faith is on hold. Mystic 16 4186 May 3, 2018 at 9:40 am
Last Post: Neo-Scholastic
  Do Christians have faith in oxygen/air? MellisaClarke 83 13244 January 3, 2018 at 6:28 am
Last Post: ignoramus
  What makes your faith true? Fake Messiah 237 33058 November 12, 2017 at 3:27 am
Last Post: Odoital77
  Baha'i Faith, have you heard of it? Foxaèr 22 3261 October 23, 2017 at 12:48 pm
Last Post: Harry Nevis



Users browsing this thread: 1 Guest(s)