Try God...

[ronedee]

The "stupid" & "nonsenical" is saying that life just popped into existence.

I might be wrong here, but I have never heard anyone except theists, claiming that life just popped into existence, when they are attempting to explain what they think atheists and scientists think.

well?

[Psykhronic]

[Terr]

Ah sure give it a try, I don't really think they believe in it themselves. Seriously do you see much day to day christianity (charity, turn the other cheek, etc).

[Chas]

Why not try transmitting a message with some actual content? It might help; so far your message has just been varying shades of "I'm right!" over and over.

Like what? i asked you what you needed for proof? And I never once said "I'm right."

Life is proof of life. Nothing else entails.

Well, then how do you explain "Life"? Science tells us: there was a beginning; there will be an end. But, "they" don't know what happened before, or what will happen after. What's you scientific, rational explanation?

Why is it that theists cannot understand burden of proof, evidence, and just plain 'we don't have an answer'?
"We don't yet know" is not evidence of god.

And it's not the same with christians? I can't go out and find a million different interpretations of the bible, the religion, everything? The difference is that when presented with a difference of opinion, the atheist is honest and just accepts that we won't all agree on everything. You guys so often just dismiss any other viewpoints, assert that yours is right, and... that's it.

Don't pretend like your side is so unified, dude.

Is that a joke? We all believe in God...in your case(s) WhoTF knows?

And we all don't. What is your point?

If you want to prove something to be an objective fact... yeah, you will be held accountable to proving that it exists. Sorry, that's just the way claims work. Now, without any form of example it's hard to really respond to this, but since atheism isn't making a truth claim, only a belief one, then we aren't required to provide proof. Unless you want us to prove that we don't believe in a god?

Meanwhile, you're claiming that god does exist, and that you know it. Not just that you believe it. Claims to knowledge require evidence: if you can't show it, you don't know it, to quote Aronra.

Unless you and the others can explain every mystery in Life, the burden of proof is on you that God doesn't exist.

No, it's fucking not. We aren't making the claim - you are. Burden on you.

And you will continue to be wrong.

Good. "Spiritual reasoning" is just a nicer way of saying "unsubstantiated, loudly asserted nothings."

So again, what you don't see is proof that it doesn't exist? When you read your statement back...don't you feel a little embarrassed?

Again, you entirely miss the point. You have no evidence of god.
We are not claiming the non-existence of god, merely the complete lack of evidence for the existence.

Also note that I didn't once resort to ridicule, I just asked what makes you so sure of your position.

You come damn near it.... but what makes you so sure of your position? How can you [also] make statements w/o knowing? At least I have personal experience to prove my Faith. What do you have? Nothing...literally nothing.

Perhaps your bible writers should have constructed a better fictional canon for their main character. As it stands, the whole thing is riddled with inconsistencies.

Better yet, perhaps you apologists could construct some decent arguments. Pointing out the inconsistencies in the shit you spout isn't the same as an unprovoked attack.

And the shit you spout isn't an attack? Or is it ridicule of something you don't understand? Just because Einstein discovered the theory of relativity, doesn't mean YOU would've ever found it...or understood it!

Yet you BELIEVE IT? Or maybe he is wrong? Would you know that? Do a search on how many scentific facts over time were proven wrong!

So, your argument is less effective than mine! Because you just don't know!

Once again, personal experience isn't evidence.

To you. But you don't know the way to a personal experience with God, because your bias and closed-mindedness blocks you from it.

You do not understand the meaning of the word 'evidence'.
Please look it up, because you are clue-free.

You act like there's never been a religious deconvert. What would you say to all the devout religious followers that have become atheists? All the members of the Clergy Project, for example?

I only know of TWO semi-famous clergy that became an atheist. One died of cancer not to long ago, the other is dying from cancer.

If any clergy, or religious has turned to atheism, I would think there was nothing there to begin with.

But, this isn't about religion. It's about "personal" relationships with God. We are NOT saved in groups. We are saved indiviually, by ONE individual. Jesus Christ! Amen!

I know several clergy who have become atheist - and know of scores more.
Google "the clergy project".

---

I do live in America. What I don't understand is why atheist can't accept that Christians can be brilliant scientist, if you were to sit down and talk to these men you would be amazed at their level of intelligence, the youth I taught was 22 when he received his PHD. in nuclear engineering.

Being brilliant goes not make one immune to mental disorder.

[AnunZi]

I do live in America. What I don't understand is why atheist can't accept that Christians can be brilliant scientist, if you were to sit down and talk to these men you would be amazed at their level of intelligence, the youth I taught was 22 when he received his PHD. in nuclear engineering.

Well, I cannot speak for all atheists, only myself.

The issue for me is simply one of intellectual honesty.
On one hand, you have someone who claims to be a scientist. I.E someone who follows the peer review process, who bases their study on testable, verifiable evidence.
On the other hand you have religion. Which begets all logic and evidence and requires you to take, on faith, impossible claims.

I find these to views to be polar opposites.

[Bad Wolf]

I might be wrong here, but I have never heard anyone except theists, claiming that life just popped into existence, when they are attempting to explain what they think atheists and scientists think.

well?

It was a polite way of calling you an idiot and a liar

[ronedee]

well?

It was a polite way of calling you an idiot and a liar

Also a way to say you have no answer.

[Bad Wolf]

My answer: You are wrong when you say that life just popped into existence.

[Psykhronic]

Actually he's saying you are misrepresenting science's position on life. He won't answer your question because your question is misleading and incorrect.

[ronedee]

Why is it that theists cannot understand burden of proof, evidence, and just plain 'we don't have an answer'?
"We don't yet know" is not evidence of god.

No theist says "we don't have an answer"...or "we don't know yet"! That's what agnostics and "certain" atheists say!

You are the one w/o "proof"!

And we all don't. What is your point?

that is the point! You don't know..... or want to know. You [all] are in the minority that don't believe.

No, it's fucking not. We aren't making the claim - you are. Burden on you.

The proof is that everything material "exists". The proof is that there was a beginning, and there will certainly be an end. Something, or someone was responsible for life to begin. You choose to think that life just appeared from nothing. That is a logically false assertion. [Time] itself is evidence of that!

Most of the world choose to believe God created life.... some because there is no other answer available. Some because they actually believe in God.

Again, you entirely miss the point. You have no evidence of god.
We are not claiming the non-existence of god, merely the complete lack of evidence for the existence.

You do not understand the meaning of the word 'evidence'.
Please look it up, because you are clue-free.

I look around and see the evidence EVERYWHERE! You stick your head up your.....eh.... in the sand and say I can't see anything!

I know several clergy who have become atheist - and know of scores more.
Google "the clergy project".

Who cares? Most pedaphile preists are now atheists too! You can have em....Good riddens.

---

My answer: You are wrong when you say that life just popped into existence.

Are you acting stupid, or are you just dumb? Pick one please!