You know what really grinds my gears? RAPE-UBLICANS

[Rahul]

Good! There’s no need to train people who are supposed to protect life on how to take life.

Yeah those back alley guys know what they're doing.

Warning! Graphic.

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No mattter what your personal opinion on abortion is Statler, illegalizing abortions does not decrease the number of abortions. It just increases the body count of our women.

This is going to be the result if your pious asses win this debate.

[Doubting Thomas]

Leave it to conservatives to believe that if they make something illegal, then people will stop doing it. You'd think by now they'd realize they can't legislate morality.

[Statler Waldorf]

That "small group of cells," however, is not a person. It is a potential person. Big difference.

How do you know this?

Yeah those back alley guys know what they're doing.

No, they may not, but you know what the solution to that is? Don’t have an abortion.

illegalizing abortions does not decrease the number of abortions.

How do you know this? Additionally, even if that were true (which I doubt it is), so what? We do not base our laws on such reasoning, if it could be shown that illegalizing rape doesn’t actually reduce the number of rapes I wouldn’t suddenly support the legalization of rape. Rape should be illegal because it’s immoral, abortion should be illegal because it too is immoral.

It just increases the body count of our women.

Apparently not if there were just as many abortions prior to the legalization of abortion (as you claim) and yet there’s no statistical difference in the mortality rate amongst women during those years. Where were all the dead women? There should be hundreds of thousands of them. Use all of the scare tactics you want, but they do not support your argument any.

Leave it to conservatives to believe that if they make something illegal, then people will stop doing it. You'd think by now they'd realize they can't legislate morality.

Leave it to a liberal to use such an absurd argument; so you would support the legalization of rape since you admit it doesn’t stop anyone from doing it? Oopsies!

[Rahul]

No, they may not, but you know what the solution to that is? Don’t have an abortion.

How generous of you to tell everyone else how to live. How many times have you been pregnant?

How do you know this?

I can read.

Unsafe abortion is a significant cause of maternal mortality and morbidity in the world. Most unsafe abortions occur where abortion is illegal,[3] or in developing countries where affordable well-trained medical practitioners are not readily available,[4][5] or where modern contraceptives are unavailable.[6] About one in eight pregnancy-related deaths worldwide is associated with unsafe abortion.[7]
..........
The World Health Organization (WHO) estimated in 2011 that each year nearly 42 million women faced with unintended pregnancies have abortions, of which 20 million are unsafe, mostly in countries where abortion is illegal.[3][8] According to WHO and Guttmacher, approximately 68,000 women die annually as a result of complications of unsafe abortion; and between two million and seven million women each year survive unsafe abortion but sustain long-term damage or disease (incomplete abortion, infection (sepsis), haemorrhage, and injury to the internal organs, such as puncturing or tearing of the uterus).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unsafe_abortion

Additionally, even if that were true (which I doubt it is), so what?

You're one sick fuck. I guess you don't have any female family members that you give the slightest shit about. Well I do.

We do not base our laws on such reasoning, if it could be shown that illegalizing rape doesn’t actually reduce the number of rapes I wouldn’t suddenly support the legalization of rape. Rape should be illegal because it’s immoral, abortion should be illegal because it too is immoral.

Christians don't base their laws on rational reasons. I disagree that it is immoral. Who are you to dictate to everyone else what is and is not moral?

And the rape analogy is shit. And you know it. Utter shit.

Apparently not if there were just as many abortions prior to the legalization of abortion (as you claim) and yet there’s no statistical difference in the mortality rate amongst women during those years.

I like how you pulled that statement right out of your ass. What else do you have shoved up there?

Where were all the dead women? There should be hundreds of thousands of them. Use all of the scare tactics you want, but they do not support your argument any.

Not scare tactics. Facts support my statements. Facts. I know you religious types have a weak grasp of what a fact is.

21.6 million women experience an unsafe abortion worldwide each year; 18.5 million of these occur in developing countries
47 000 women die from complications of unsafe abortion each year.
Deaths due to unsafe abortion remain close to 13% of all maternal deaths.

http://www.who.int/reproductivehealth/to...nitude/en/

Are you going to keep making blanket false assertions with nothing to back you up or can we act like mature rational adults?

[Minimalist]

Don't try to use facts on Waldork. He's a jesus freak. Reality slides off his back.

[Foxaèr]

but you know what the solution to that is? Don’t have an abortion.

That is not a solution.

You are not a woman. You will never become pregnant. You will never be faced with the hard decision of either keeping it or getting rid of it. Only a woman can understand what it is like to carry a parasite in her body for nine months, and it should by all rights be her decision to have an abortion if she so chooses to have one. It is no man's prerogative to instruct any woman what she can or cannot do with her body.

[Statler Waldorf]

How generous of you to tell everyone else how to live. How many times have you been pregnant?

Irrelevant question, I’ve never been a slave owner either, that does not disqualify me from arguing against slavery. If a person is going to engage in behavior that often results in pregnancy, then they’ll have to own up to it if it happens. I am for personal responsibility.

I can read.

That’s nice, but not what I asked. I asked how do you know that an unborn Human is not a person? That’s quite the claim and you’re going to have to back it up now.

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Unsafe abortion is a significant cause of maternal mortality and morbidity in the world. Most unsafe abortions occur where abortion is illegal,[3] or in developing countries where affordable well-trained medical practitioners are not readily available,[4][5] or where modern contraceptives are unavailable.[6] About one in eight pregnancy-related deaths worldwide is associated with unsafe abortion.[7]
..........
The World Health Organization (WHO) estimated in 2011 that each year nearly 42 million women faced with unintended pregnancies have abortions, of which 20 million are unsafe, mostly in countries where abortion is illegal.[3][8] According to WHO and Guttmacher, approximately 68,000 women die annually as a result of complications of unsafe abortion; and between two million and seven million women each year survive unsafe abortion but sustain long-term damage or disease (incomplete abortion, infection (sepsis), haemorrhage, and injury to the internal organs, such as puncturing or tearing of the uterus).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unsafe_abortion

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Wikipedia? A user-generated site? What does this have to do with the personhood of the unborn baby?

You're one sick fuck. I guess you don't have any female family members that you give the slightest shit about. Well I do.

Actually all of my female family members are just as pro-life as I am. I guess you don’t have any babies that you care about. Two can play that game. Call me all the names you like, but it doesn’t change the fact that you’re getting destroyed in this debate.

Christians don't base their laws on rational reasons. I disagree that it is immoral. Who are you to dictate to everyone else what is and is not moral?

Morals exist independent of whether or not you believe murdering an innocent baby is immoral. However, that does say a lot about you as a person.

And the rape analogy is shit. And you know it. Utter shit.

This is really all you’ve got? You’re really suggesting that if rape being illegal didn’t reduce the number of rapes committed you’d support legalizing it?

I like how you pulled that statement right out of your ass. What else do you have shoved up there?

Says the person appealing to user-generated websites to try and prove a point, that’s fresh.

Not scare tactics. Facts support my statements. Facts. I know you religious types have a weak grasp of what a fact is.

Facts? Where? Where? Where’s the statistical difference in the mortality rate amongst American women in the US prior to the legalization of abortion?

21.6 million women experience an unsafe abortion worldwide each year; 18.5 million of these occur in developing countries
47 000 women die from complications of unsafe abortion each year.
Deaths due to unsafe abortion remain close to 13% of all maternal deaths.

We’re talking about in the US, not worldwide, so you’ll have to get better data. 0.2% of unsafe abortions worldwide result in the death of the mother? I thought you claimed these things were unsafe? You never said that women have a 99.8% chance of surviving them! I’d much rather save the baby who has a 0% chance of surviving them. Why are you supporting the death of 21,600,000 people per year in order to safe 47,000 people per year? Completely backwards logic.

Are you going to keep making blanket false assertions with nothing to back you up or can we act like mature rational adults?

You’re obviously incapable of acting like an adult. You’ve backed my statements up rather nicely though, abortion is not a dangerous procedure for women so you’ll have to find new scare tactics.

That is not a solution.

Sure it is, if nobody had abortions no babies would die from abortions and no women would die during the procedure. Problem solved.

You are not a woman.

True statement, and neither are you.

You will never become pregnant.

Another true statement, and neither will you.

You will never be faced with the hard decision of either keeping it or getting rid of it.

Getting rid of what?

Only a woman can understand what it is like to carry a parasite in her body for nine months, and it should by all rights be her decision to have an abortion if she so chooses to have one.

A parasite? I really hope you’re not referring to babies as parasites. That is just disgusting and rather ignorant to boot (parasites by definition are of a separate species than their host, so babies cannot be parasites). It’s amazing the levels you all will stoop to in order to try and justify such barbarism.

It is no man's prerogative to instruct any woman what she can or cannot do with her body.

Wrong again. It’s against the law for a woman to use her body to kill another person. Secondly, it’s not her body; it’s logically fallacious for numerous reasons to argue that the baby is part of the mother’s body.

“As a materialist, I think it has been demonstrated that an embryo is a separate body and entity, and not merely (as some really did used to argue) a growth on or in the female body. There used to be feminists who would say that it was more like an appendix or even—this was seriously maintained—a tumor. That nonsense seems to have stopped. Embryology confirms morality. The words “unborn child,” even when used in a politicized manner, describe a material reality.”- The late Christopher Hitchens

[Rahul]

So you sit around all week and then respond after I've already half forgotten this convo? Nice tactic. Well, I'm not going into this point by point with you right now because I've been at the hospital all day while a loved one had surgery.

I'm not in the mood for you today. But I will make one point. When you just now posted this:

I can read.

That’s nice, but not what I asked. I asked how do you know that an unborn Human is not a person? That’s quite the claim and you’re going to have to back it up now.

Bullshit. This exchange below is EXACTLY what I was responding to with that statement:

illegalizing abortions does not decrease the number of abortions.

How do you know this? Additionally, even if that were true (which I doubt it is), so what? We do not base our laws on such reasoning, if it could be shown that illegalizing rape doesn’t actually reduce the number of rapes I wouldn’t suddenly support the legalization of rape. Rape should be illegal because it’s immoral, abortion should be illegal because it too is immoral.

I can read.

Nice deliberate attempt at misdirection, twit.

[My imaginary friend is GOD]

You know, if I had been the Virgin Mary, I would've coathanger'd the shit out of Jesus.

[Statler Waldorf]

So you sit around all week and then respond after I've already half forgotten this convo? Nice tactic. Well, I'm not going into this point by point with you right now because I've been at the hospital all day while a loved one had surgery.

How do you know what I’ve been doing all week? Hope your loved one is well.

Bullshit. This exchange below is EXACTLY what I was responding to with that statement:
Nice deliberate attempt at misdirection, twit.

How do you know that was a deliberate attempt at misdirection? You seem to think you’re all knowing today. Is it at all possible that I simply thought you were answering my question “How do you know this?” that I asked of FNM since you often jump into other people’s discussions? You should examine your own tactics first since you seem to enjoy quoting me out of context.

You know, if I had been the Virgin Mary, I would've coathanger'd the shit out of Jesus.

Of course you would.