Another Prayer Question For Theists

[BrianSoddingBoru4]

What, if anything, is the difference between a prayer and an attempt to cast a magic spell?

It strikes me that in both cases, the supplicant is attempting to alter the Universe in someone's favour (I'm leaving aside - for the nonce - prayers of thanksgiving and general supplication): the Christian asks Jesus to heal a sick child, the Buddhist spins her prayer wheel and chants her sutra, the Wiccan burns certain herbs at propitious moments, the Jew wails at his Wall, and so on.

Exterior trappings notwithstanding, is there any real, meaningful difference between what a Catholic attempts in front of a statue of the Virgin, and what a Santeriast attempts when he slits the throat of a chicken?

Boru

[fr0d0]

Where was the magic spell?

And how about addressing answers on your other thread?

[Minimalist]

Exterior trappings notwithstanding, is there any real, meaningful difference between what a Catholic attempts in front of a statue of the Virgin, and what a Santeriast attempts when he slits the throat of a chicken?

Can we ask the chicken for his opinion?

[Godscreated]

What, if anything, is the difference between a prayer and an attempt to cast a magic spell?

It strikes me that in both cases, the supplicant is attempting to alter the Universe in someone's favour (I'm leaving aside - for the nonce - prayers of thanksgiving and general supplication): the Christian asks Jesus to heal a sick child, the Buddhist spins her prayer wheel and chants her sutra, the Wiccan burns certain herbs at propitious moments, the Jew wails at his Wall, and so on.

Exterior trappings notwithstanding, is there any real, meaningful difference between what a Catholic attempts in front of a statue of the Virgin, and what a Santeriast attempts when he slits the throat of a chicken?

Boru

There is a difference in Christian prayer and the others you mention, some of those do depend on magic, what ever that may be. With Christians we ask God to determine what's best or at least we should, and if He decides in our favor then we have unleashed the same power that created the universe. In actuality Christians need to remember that we change nothing, changes come from the grace of God and the change can only happen if the request is not against God's ultimate will.

[Minimalist]

In actuality Christians need to remember that we change nothing,

At the very least you don't end up with a dead chicken, I'll give you that.

[Michael Schubert]

What, if anything, is the difference between a prayer and an attempt to cast a magic spell?

It strikes me that in both cases, the supplicant is attempting to alter the Universe in someone's favour (I'm leaving aside - for the nonce - prayers of thanksgiving and general supplication): the Christian asks Jesus to heal a sick child, the Buddhist spins her prayer wheel and chants her sutra, the Wiccan burns certain herbs at propitious moments, the Jew wails at his Wall, and so on.

Exterior trappings notwithstanding, is there any real, meaningful difference between what a Catholic attempts in front of a statue of the Virgin, and what a Santeriast attempts when he slits the throat of a chicken?

Boru

I think prayer is just an elaborate way to hope for something.

[Minimalist]

Kudos given by (2): Godschild

I'm getting uncomfortable about this.

I may have to go kill a chicken. Perhaps I'll fry it up?

[genkaus]

There is a difference in Christian prayer and the others you mention, some of those do depend on magic, what ever that may be. With Christians we ask God to determine what's best or at least we should, and if He decides in our favor then we have unleashed the same power that created the universe. In actuality Christians need to remember that we change nothing, changes come from the grace of God and the change can only happen if the request is not against God's ultimate will.

Not seeing any difference at all. That''s precisely what the "explanation" of all those other prayers is going to be if you ask the ones doing it.

[Godscreated]

There is a difference in Christian prayer and the others you mention, some of those do depend on magic, what ever that may be. With Christians we ask God to determine what's best or at least we should, and if He decides in our favor then we have unleashed the same power that created the universe. In actuality Christians need to remember that we change nothing, changes come from the grace of God and the change can only happen if the request is not against God's ultimate will.

Not seeing any difference at all. That''s precisely what the "explanation" of all those other prayers is going to be if you ask the ones doing it.

Truth doesn't change.

[Bad Writer]

Truth doesn't change.

I'll bite. I agree with this statement, but what is it that you're holding to be true? How do you verify the veracity of something? What is your threshold of proof (rather, how much proof do you need before you believe something to be true)?

:Channeling PeterPriesthood:

Did God give you a testimony of the truth by means of the Holy Ghost? If not, then how do you know that what you take for truth (concerning your beliefs) is not of the Devil?

:End Channeling: