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Which Comes First?
September 29, 2009 at 9:06 am
(This post was last modified: September 29, 2009 at 9:08 am by Retorth.)
I'm a little confused...I read a few posts on prayer answering and it seems you must first truly believe in god before they can be answered.
The issue here is this:
If I want to experience god, to have my prayers answered, to feel his presence, christians say I have to truly believe in him before I can feel or hear him. I am thinking, if I want to believe in him, I need to feel his presence and have my prayers answered, and hear his voice speaking to me then I know he is there.
So which should come first:
To believe in something then be able to see it;
or
To see something then believe in it?
I say the latter makes more sense.
The dark side awaits YOU...AngryAtheism
"Only the dead have seen the end of war..." - Plato
“Those who wish to base their morality literally on the Bible have either not read it or not understood it...” - Richard Dawkins
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RE: Which Comes First?
September 29, 2009 at 10:21 am
Quote:Anyone at any point could sincerely believe.
I can't.
I could say I believe but I'd be lying if I did.
Quote:seems you must first truly believe in god before they can be answered.
Strange that isn't it? You must first believe without any reasonable evidence in order to see. Don't make much sense does it?!
It's bullshit on a whole new level.
Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence - Carl Sagan
Mankind's intelligence walks hand in hand with it's stupidity.
Being an atheist says nothing about your overall intelligence, it just means you don't believe in god. Atheists can be as bright as any scientist and as stupid as any creationist.
You never really know just how stupid someone is, until you've argued with them.
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RE: Which Comes First?
September 29, 2009 at 11:03 am
Retorth,
You have outlined one of the greatest defenses for the inefficacy of prayers.
I've heard this argument used to explain why most prayers are not answered:
1. Only a true believer will have their prayers answered
2. You must genuinely ask forgiveness before praying
3. Many of your prayers go unanswered
conclusion: You must either have some sin you haven't confessed or you have sufficient doubt. Either of these conditions block you from the blessings of God.
I understand your frustration. It would be great if there was a way to prove that prayer worked; then it would follow that God exists and we could all agree.
Rhizo
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RE: Which Comes First?
September 29, 2009 at 11:11 am
@ Rhiz
1. everyone has some sin
2. you don't have to believe 1st
3. there's no 'must'
4. all genuine prayers are answered
conclusion: only you block yourself from the blessings of God
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RE: Which Comes First?
September 29, 2009 at 11:21 am
Fr0d0,
I know that (Well, I have always thought you needed to believe so I would disagree with point 2) and believed it back in the day but it falls on its face because prayer doesn't work like it is said to work in the bible. I have asked many a mountain to throw itself into the sea and not one has listened no matter how faithful I was at the time. I have tried to walk on water.
I have had a few experiences with healing people but that could easily be explained as relieving a psychosomatic ailment through the placebo effect.
Rhizo
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RE: Which Comes First?
September 29, 2009 at 11:56 am
So how do you know that you were faithful enough then Rhiz?
