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Encouragement and Advice
#11
RE: Encouragement and Advice
(August 9, 2013 at 11:58 pm)Captain Colostomy Wrote: Fear is a shitty reason to stick with a religion.
Agreed. And here is one difference between the Jews of Jesus' day and Christians. The Jews followed laws because they feared hell. Christians know they are secure because they have a personal relationship with the creator. Themonkeyman, get to know Jesus through his Word and through fellowship with other believers, and he will respond with comfort and reassurance.

http://www.openbible.info/topics/strengt...with_jesus 
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#12
RE: Encouragement and Advice
Um...you don't know what you are talking about either.

http://www.myjewishlearning.com/beliefs/...Hell.shtml

Quote:The catastrophe of 70 CE caused a theological crisis. How could it be that the God of Israel would simply allow His sanctuary to be destroyed and His people to be vanquished at the hands of the Roman Empire? While the rabbis often claimed that it was the Israelites' sinfulness that led God to allow it to be defeated (mi-p'nei hataeinu, "because of our sins"), it was more difficult to explain why good and decent individual Jews were made to suffer.

This led to the development of another theological claim: "Rabbi Ya'akov taught: This world is compared to an ante-chamber that leads to Olam Ha-Ba, (the World-to-Come)" (Pirkei Avot 4:21). That is, while a righteous person might suffer in this lifetime, he or she will certainly be rewarded in the next world, and that reward will be much greater.

But the Mishnah was cobbled together beginning in the 2d century AD...long after your silly excuse for a god was dead even according to your own preposterous story.

Oddly...or perhaps not so oddly...while the NT excoriates the Pharisses it has little to say about the Sadducees. This is odd because,

http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsou...senes.html

Quote:The Pharisees also maintained that an after-life existed and that God punished the wicked and rewarded the righteous in the world to come. They also believed in a messiah who would herald an era of world peace.

It would seem that the Pharisees should have been the natural allies if there was anything at all to the jesus tale. But, the Sadducees disappeared when the temple burned down and all that was left were the Pharisees to serve as the "bad guys" in the comic book you call the NT.
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#13
RE: Encouragement and Advice
(August 10, 2013 at 12:52 am)Undeceived Wrote:
(August 9, 2013 at 11:58 pm)Captain Colostomy Wrote: Fear is a shitty reason to stick with a religion.
Agreed. And here is one difference between the Jews of Jesus' day and Christians. The Jews followed laws because they feared hell. Christians know they are secure because they have a personal relationship with the creator. Themonkeyman, get to know Jesus through his Word and through fellowship with other believers, and he will respond with comfort and reassurance.

http://www.openbible.info/topics/strengt...with_jesus 

Thanks...I think?

Minimalist is right...you are off the rails, bud. Hell, Sheol, whatever, isn't exactly well fleshed out in the OT. Jews followed/follow laws because of a covenant with god, not some eternal damnation aspect. Christians, OTOH, seem to delight in using the notion to keep the flocks on their knees, their eyes ever skyward.

The Jews could be accused of a lot of things, but they aren't hellmongers.

Undeceived-

Where did you get that idea anyway? Coming from a Christian, it sounds like projection. Schoolyard revenge for the Jews not acknowledging a fabricated messiah who didn't even fit the bill?
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#14
RE: Encouragement and Advice
(August 9, 2013 at 8:49 pm)themonkeyman Wrote: 1) Do babies and children go to hell?
No because children are not old enough to understand and make their own decisions to be accountable.

Poppycock. All people are born with sin. They must worship Him starting at a very young age.

Quote:2) Is the New Testament reliable?
Yes because the Old Testament points directly to Jesus and the New Testament.

The Bible in itself isn't reliable. Biblically speaking, with the assumption that the Old Testament is somehow reliable, then yes, you're correct.

Quote:3) If God is Omnipotent and Omnipresent he created hell, so therefore how can hell be separation from God if he is everywhere?
Hell is separation from God as God chooses not to be in hell with others.

How do you know that?

Quote:4) Why did God create hell for eternal torment and torture?
God never mentioned hell as eternal torment and torture – Well not really, many people think dying and having nothing when they die is Torture much like the same way being without God will be torture. God does not tell us a lot about hell.

God technically doesn't tell us anything.

Quote:5) Jesus took the punishment for all our sins – So based upon that to pay our debt should he not be in hell for eternity considering he died a sinner?
No Jesus did not die a sinner at all Jesus was sinless but took the burden of other peoples sin creating a paradox that he could not stay in hell because he himself was a sinner however he could get there because of the sins.

Allegedly, your honor. Allegedly.

Quote:6) As we know the Bible has been edited and re-written many times, do you think God would punish people for not believing when those same people want to believe but cannot because they cannot trust the Bible?
Yes because they should trust the bible irrespective – It’s God’s word and is never wrong.

How do you know that? If it's been edited and re-written so many times, it's obviously lost the original text. How is it still God's word? How do you know it's still valid?

Or better yet, how do you know it was God's word in the first place?

Quote:7) Why would God punish us for eternity in hell for a Finite sin?
It’s not that he wants to punish us, It’s because it’s basically the final straw – God did all he could during our earthly lives after which we will be removed from his presence.

Yeah, like that time he murdered every human on Earth with the exception of one.

Quote:8) Did God create evil?
No God created rules in which he deemed were against what his will was, People going against Gods will are evil.

Many can argue that God is the evil one because of the actions he committed in the Bible.

Quote:10) Why when I started breaking away from God and asked for him to Guide me one last chance did he ignore me?
It’s because for years you have been walking further and further away and you don’t know which way to turn this is of your own making.

I'm sorry I can't give an accurate response to this. I'm laughing too hard for my fingers to keep straight.

Quote:11) If an Ancient Tribe has not heard about God where do they go?
They will go to heaven because they have now knowledge.

But they don't believe in your God. Which I guess we'll cover later...

Quote:12) So what you’re saying is that Christianity should not be preached as people who are ignorant can go to heaven yet those who hear Gods word and reject it will go to heaven?
Yes this is correct, it is because in their heart and mind and soul they will seek God.

Again, we'll see how hypocritical you are a little later...

Quote:13) Would it not have been better not to have been born?
No because God gave us free will we then decided to go against it!

How does this make any sense?

Quote:16) Do you believe in the Book of Revelation?
I don’t know.

First good response so far.

Quote:17) Do you believe it is in some way scriptural and literal?
I don’t know.

Second good response.

Quote:18) If someone decides not to believe in God throughout this life – Although God said he would cast people into the lake of fire for eternity, Do you think at the end he will save everyone?
No because God cannot show his Justice to these people if he saves them anyway?

And now #11 and #12 are irrelevant. Lake of fire? For the poor innocent Buddhists who were living peacefully in the mountains? Harsh.

Quote:19) What if people in heaven pray to God to forgive them or to take pity, Surely Jesus said anything they ask for he will give them?
Yes but this does not show Gods love if he allows them forgiveness as he has to be a fair and Just God.

...we're not calling the God of the Bible fair and just, are we?

Quote:20) What is heaven like?
We worship and praise God forever!

And you know that how?







Damn, if it were 5 months ago, I'd be responding with paragraphs for each question. I guess I got tired of reading and responding to such similar stuff. I can't imagine how Minimalist feels, after 4 years.
ronedee Wrote:Science doesn't have a good explaination for water

[Image: YAAgdMk.gif]



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#15
RE: Encouragement and Advice
(August 9, 2013 at 8:49 pm)themonkeyman Wrote: Hi Folks,

So as most of you know I have been called 'Agnostic Theist' whatever the heck that means I dont know lol.

Anyway - I had a friend round to my house tonight and he started arguing with me about christianity and how it is right.

Can someone please refute them. I know that there is no evidence to prove god or gods exist but I am afraid of hell and I am also finding it difficult to stop believing.

Any tips or things to do to keep my mind off it.

Here are the arguments and questions can someone please pick at them.
Be glad to.

Quote:1) Do babies and children go to hell?
No because children are not old enough to understand and make their own decisions to be accountable.
Great

Quote:2) Is the New Testament reliable?
Yes because the Old Testament points directly to Jesus and the New Testament.
I would like to also add that there are very specific promises Christ makes to potential believer, that have been full filled for nearly 2000 years of belief. God says if you do "x" He will give you "Y"

Quote:3) If God is Omnipotent and Omnipresent he created hell, so therefore how can hell be separation from God if he is everywhere?
Hell is separation from God as God chooses not to be in hell with others.
:Great:

Quote:4) Why did God create hell for eternal torment and torture?
God never mentioned hell as eternal torment and torture – Well not really, many people think dying and having nothing when they die is Torture much like the same way being without God will be torture. God does not tell us a lot about hell.
:Great:

Quote:5) Jesus took the punishment for all our sins – So based upon that to pay our debt should he not be in hell for eternity considering he died a sinner?
No Jesus did not die a sinner at all Jesus was sinless but took the burden of other peoples sin creating a paradox that he could not stay in hell because he himself was a sinner however he could get there because of the sins.
:Great:

Quote:6) As we know the Bible has been edited and re-written many times, do you think God would punish people for not believing when those same people want to believe but cannot because they cannot trust the Bible?
Yes because they should trust the bible irrespective – It’s God’s word and is never wrong.
I would have pointed to the parable of the talents to explain why God will hold everyone in who He has placed in proxcimity to a version of the bible. (In Short we are responsiable to whatever God has given us. Not to some standard above and beyond our comprehension.) If God gives you X version of the bible then you are responsiable for X.

Quote:7) Why would God punish us for eternity in hell for a Finite sin?
It’s not that he wants to punish us, It’s because it’s basically the final straw – God did all he could during our earthly lives after which we will be removed from his presence.
I would have simply asked: What makes you think your sins are finite?

Quote:8) Did God create evil?
No God created rules in which he deemed were against what his will was, People going against Gods will are evil.
Great

Quote:9) Why did God Punish Job?
Because Job was to act as an example for future generations.
I completely agree, but would also point out, that just because Job's fortune had changed did not mean he was being punished. From His own Mouth he said: The Lord gives and the Lord, takes away. Blessed be the Name of the Lord.

Quote:10) Why when I started breaking away from God and asked for him to Guide me one last chance did he ignore me?
It’s because for years you have been walking further and further away and you don’t know which way to turn this is of your own making.
if this is what you did then I agree. Look at the story of the prodigal son. It was no longer the "father's" job to make the son who abandoned Him life better. The lost son carried himself beyond the Father's house and therefore out of His circle of protection. That is why in the story the son wound up eating pig slop and sleeping with them for warmth. It wasn't till the son returned to the Father did the Father completely restore him.

Quote:11) If an Ancient Tribe has not heard about God where do they go?
They will go to heaven because they have now knowledge.
I disagree. The bible does not say they will goto heaven. It simply says Christ will Judge them completely.

Quote:12) So what you’re saying is that Christianity should not be preached as people who are ignorant can go to heaven yet those who hear Gods word and reject it will go to heaven?
Yes this is correct, it is because in their heart and mind and soul they will seek God.
Ah, no. Again parable of the talents. "We are only responsiable to what we have been given." This includes teachers. In that if there is opportunity we are to teach, not judge who is or is not able to comprehend. That task belongs to Christ alone.

Quote:13) Would it not have been better not to have been born?
No because God gave us free will we then decided to go against it!
I would say it would have been better if you had not been born if you choose to willingly and willfully ignore God's invitation, but that's just me. I want to praise and worship God for eternity.

Quote:14) I don’t like or trust the Apostle Paul, He contradicted a lot of what Jesus and the OT said, Prove it (I got stuck here).
Like what?
I've studied both for sometime and have never ran across a contradiction, just people saying there are contradictions.

Quote:15) When God says ‘I AM’ he is meaning ‘Mind your own business’?
No God is saying that is name is the unspeakable name that the taught to Moses.
No. Religion (The man/men who wear funny hats who reside in Rome) tells us God is Omni-Max Deity. Which means He is bound to those definations (as per one of your first questions) to define who He is. "I AM" simply means God is who or whatever He chooses to be. Which means He is not bound by the Omni-Max definations (and the subsequent paradoxes) you all like to confuse yourselves with. God has the Power to be who God is. Something we like to think we have the ablity to do but not really.

Quote:16) Do you believe in the Book of Revelation?
I don’t know.
It is ok not to know. I do. That said it may not play out to that last generation(they may not describe it) as John recorded it.

Quote:17) Do you believe it is in some way scriptural and literal?
I don’t know.

18) If someone decides not to believe in God throughout this life – Although God said he would cast people into the lake of fire for eternity, Do you think at the end he will save everyone?
No because God cannot show his Justice to these people if he saves them anyway?
We know He will not save Everyone, Per the teachings of Christ. Christ even said not everyone who calls themselves 'christian' will be saved. In Short it is up to Christ who will be saved.

Quote:19) What if people in heaven pray to God to forgive them or to take pity, Surely Jesus said anything they ask for he will give them?
Yes but this does not show Gods love if he allows them forgiveness as he has to be a fair and Just God.
You guys are always turning that passage in Matthew around. Christ said, "Anything you ask in My Name." Which means Anything you ask that I have told you to ask for. If you were to order something like a computer through your work, you are ordering or asking for a computer though the company name. Now in the same sense could you ask for the company that just bought you a computer to pay for all of your other living and personal expenses? Of course not, when you use the company name to purchase something it has to be for work. Why would you think it is different here? Luke 11 is the parallel verse to the one in Matthew, and in that chapter Christ clearly is telling us to ask for the Gift of the holy Spirit "In His Name.."

Quote:20) What is heaven like?
We worship and praise God forever!

Why don't you ask God to Show you.
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#16
RE: Encouragement and Advice
Everyone around here has replied to you, within the presupposition that a god exists...

Let's try the opposite. Wink

(August 9, 2013 at 8:49 pm)themonkeyman Wrote: Hi Folks,

So as most of you know I have been called 'Agnostic Theist' whatever the heck that means I dont know lol.
Not the best of ways to use the "there is no god" hypothesis, but well...
Try to keep up!

(August 9, 2013 at 8:49 pm)themonkeyman Wrote: Anyway - I had a friend round to my house tonight and he started arguing with me about christianity and how it is right.
How does he know that?!
How can anyone know that a particular religion is right?
O.o
They all look man-made. They all look like they were formed out of pieces of previous religions, what I like to call the "evolution of religion".
If there is no god, how can any religion be right?

(August 9, 2013 at 8:49 pm)themonkeyman Wrote: Can someone please refute them. I know that there is no evidence to prove god or gods exist but I am afraid of hell and I am also finding it difficult to stop believing.

Any tips or things to do to keep my mind off it.
Easy. Play a game.




(August 9, 2013 at 8:49 pm)themonkeyman Wrote: Here are the arguments and questions can someone please pick at them.

1) Do babies and children go to hell?
No because children are not old enough to understand and make their own decisions to be accountable.
Remember our working hypothesis?
There is no god.
If no god exists, what is hell? Yeah, it's made of the same delusional imagination as god and heaven... that is, it doesn't exist.
When babies die, they go to the same place adults go... typically, 6-feet under.... some people prefer cremation.

I'll go with donating all organs that can be used to save someone else and then cremation.

(August 9, 2013 at 8:49 pm)themonkeyman Wrote: 2) Is the New Testament reliable?
Yes because the Old Testament points directly to Jesus and the New Testament.
No.
It does portray some lifestyles of the early 1st century, but it's too biased and the content got skewed as time passed:





(August 9, 2013 at 8:49 pm)themonkeyman Wrote: 3) If God is Omnipotent and Omnipresent he created hell, so therefore how can hell be separation from God if he is everywhere?
Hell is separation from God as God chooses not to be in hell with others.
Remember that god is a figment of mankind's imagination, hence... keep using that most unlimited human resource... anything is possible in there!
Even the illogical!

(August 9, 2013 at 8:49 pm)themonkeyman Wrote: 4) Why did God create hell for eternal torment and torture?
God never mentioned hell as eternal torment and torture – Well not really, many people think dying and having nothing when they die is Torture much like the same way being without God will be torture. God does not tell us a lot about hell.
God doesn't exist.... as such, it never created anything. Not heaven, nor hell... nor purgatory.... nor the Universe.

(August 9, 2013 at 8:49 pm)themonkeyman Wrote: 5) Jesus took the punishment for all our sins – So based upon that to pay our debt should he not be in hell for eternity considering he died a sinner?
No Jesus did not die a sinner at all Jesus was sinless but took the burden of other peoples sin creating a paradox that he could not stay in hell because he himself was a sinner however he could get there because of the sins.
Jesus took the punishment because he became a nuisance to the established powers that be.... remember the tale about him ousting the people going about their business in the temple?
Just imagine some schmuk from nowhere coming to one of those mega-churches and kicking those money grubbing "preachers" out of that "temple"?.... what would be the expected result?

(August 9, 2013 at 8:49 pm)themonkeyman Wrote: 6) As we know the Bible has been edited and re-written many times, do you think God would punish people for not believing when those same people want to believe but cannot because they cannot trust the Bible?
Yes because they should trust the bible irrespective – It’s God’s word and is never wrong.
God doesn't exist, as far as this reply is concerned.
Hence, god cannot punish anyone.
God's word must be man-made... and as we are very well aware, man is fallible.

(August 9, 2013 at 8:49 pm)themonkeyman Wrote: 7) Why would God punish us for eternity in hell for a Finite sin?
It’s not that he wants to punish us, It’s because it’s basically the final straw – God did all he could during our earthly lives after which we will be removed from his presence.
They guys that came up with that particular piece of dreamed up information didn't think people would make that parallel.
They were interested in making people behave, without the need for actual law enforcement... which was scarce, at the time.

(August 9, 2013 at 8:49 pm)themonkeyman Wrote: 8) Did God create evil?
No God created rules in which he deemed were against what his will was, People going against Gods will are evil.
Again, it couldn't create that.
Evil is just the malevolent intent behind a given action.
And a malevolent intent can arise from a multitude of inner workings of the individual... greed, lust...


(August 9, 2013 at 8:49 pm)themonkeyman Wrote: 9) Why did God Punish Job?
Because Job was to act as an example for future generations.
It's a story. You need to set an example out of someone in order to make the whole populace behave... And these people got away with setting an example out of a fictional character! Kudos to them!

(August 9, 2013 at 8:49 pm)themonkeyman Wrote: 10) Why when I started breaking away from God and asked for him to Guide me one last chance did he ignore me?
It’s because for years you have been walking further and further away and you don’t know which way to turn this is of your own making.
God doesn't exist.

(August 9, 2013 at 8:49 pm)themonkeyman Wrote: 11) If an Ancient Tribe has not heard about God where do they go?
They will go to heaven because they have now knowledge.
They go where they want to go... provided they have the means to move around to that particular place that they want to go.

Oh, wait... you mean, where do they go, after dead? The same place those babies go... cemetery, crematory, someone else's body...

(August 9, 2013 at 8:49 pm)themonkeyman Wrote: 12) So what you’re saying is that Christianity should not be preached as people who are ignorant can go to heaven yet those who hear Gods word and reject it will go to heaven?
Yes this is correct, it is because in their heart and mind and soul they will seek God.
Indeed it should not. It has been preached for enough already.
People already got the memo.
Stop the spam!

(August 9, 2013 at 8:49 pm)themonkeyman Wrote: 13) Would it not have been better not to have been born?
No because God gave us free will we then decided to go against it!
Why?! Life is such a wonderful pile of joy, sadness, beauty, ugliness, awesome, boring, sunny and cloudy days...
You need to be alive to experience it all!
Once dead, you're dead. Can't do anything.

(August 9, 2013 at 8:49 pm)themonkeyman Wrote: 14) I don’t like or trust the Apostle Paul, He contradicted a lot of what Jesus and the OT said, Prove it (I got stuck here).
That's because, according to himself, he never witnessed Jesus.... he had "visions".... what we would call a psychotic episode, or hallucinations... He saw what he wanted to see... and that wasn't in full agreement with the original message... or with the message that became written.

(August 9, 2013 at 8:49 pm)themonkeyman Wrote: 15) When God says ‘I AM’ he is meaning ‘Mind your own business’?
No God is saying that is name is the unspeakable name that the taught to Moses.
The scribe ran out of ink...
Or ran out of imagination.
And his master liked the philosophical notion that went with that omission of the rest of the sentence.
(most likely! Tongue)

(August 9, 2013 at 8:49 pm)themonkeyman Wrote: 16) Do you believe in the Book of Revelation?
I don’t know.
It's a book. Do you believe in the Return of the King?
(August 9, 2013 at 8:49 pm)themonkeyman Wrote: 17) Do you believe it is in some way scriptural and literal?
I don’t know.
Do you believe the Return of the King is in some way scriptural and literal?
(August 9, 2013 at 8:49 pm)themonkeyman Wrote: 18) If someone decides not to believe in God throughout this life – Although God said he would cast people into the lake of fire for eternity, Do you think at the end he will save everyone?
No because God cannot show his Justice to these people if he saves them anyway?
How many times must I type this: god does not exist. There is no hell, no lake of fire, no eternity.

(August 9, 2013 at 8:49 pm)themonkeyman Wrote: 19) What if people in heaven pray to God to forgive them or to take pity, Surely Jesus said anything they ask for he will give them?
Yes but this does not show Gods love if he allows them forgiveness as he has to be a fair and Just God.
So, exactly how many virgins are expecting me when I die a martyr?





(August 9, 2013 at 8:49 pm)themonkeyman Wrote: 20) What is heaven like?
We worship and praise God forever!

It is whatever you want. Remember that it is a made up place...






This is the end of this fine presentation. We hope you enjoyed our little show. We'll be around all week!
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#17
RE: Encouragement and Advice
What fun!

First off, keep something in mind. If you really want to believe the rebuttals offered, you will. I will try to offer an alternative opinion of what you’ve wrote, and it will be up to you to determine which seems more reasonable. Things that are irrational tend to stand out. Just trust your gut, and lean towards ideas that you have better reason to believe. Okay? Let’s do it!
(August 9, 2013 at 8:49 pm)themonkeyman Wrote: 1) Do babies and children go to hell?
No because children are not old enough to understand and make their own decisions to be accountable.

If certain attributes of God are beyond the scope of human ability, and God is the all-powerful creator that loves his creatures more than I could ever love my own babies, is there really any age that people could reach that would be acceptable to send to hell? If I have free will, can I choose not to go to hell? If not, who is making me go? Can God make an alternative destination? Why is God limited to just these two options? Why do neither of these options display characteristics of free-will?

(August 9, 2013 at 8:49 pm)themonkeyman Wrote: 2) Is the New Testament reliable?
Yes because the Old Testament points directly to Jesus and the New Testament.
Unacceptable response. This is called circular logic. The Old Testament hasn’t been proven yet. This reasoning can be quickly rejected. It is begging the question and fallacious.

(August 9, 2013 at 8:49 pm)themonkeyman Wrote: 3) If God is Omnipotent and Omnipresent he created hell, so therefore how can hell be separation from God if he is everywhere?
Hell is separation from God as God chooses not to be in hell with others.
It looks as though you’ve actually worked this one out on your own. Let me just re-arrange it so that it looks a little clearer.
“Hell is separation from God as God chooses not to be in hell with others.”
Response: How can Hell be separation from God if he is omnipresent (can be everywhere)?
Remember, 2 responses. Ask yourself which one sounds more reasonable.




(August 9, 2013 at 8:49 pm)themonkeyman Wrote: 4) Why did God create hell for eternal torment and torture?
God never mentioned hell as eternal torment and torture – Well not really, many people think dying and having nothing when they die is Torture much like the same way being without God will be torture. God does not tell us a lot about hell.
So, none of the information came from God directly?
How do we know about Hell?
Secondly, if there is nothing after death (no company of Gods), how can that be torture? Have you ever slept, and not dreamed? During that state, were you frightened? Did you feel torture?

(August 9, 2013 at 8:49 pm)themonkeyman Wrote: 5) Jesus took the punishment for all our sins – So based upon that to pay our debt should he not be in hell for eternity considering he died a sinner?
No Jesus did not die a sinner at all Jesus was sinless but took the burden of other peoples sin creating a paradox that he could not stay in hell because he himself was a sinner however he could get there because of the sins.
Is death a fair exchange for sins?
If I die, do I automatically get to go to heaven, or has Jesus already stamped that ticket?
Why does an all-powerful God, that is infinitely compassionate and loving, require human sacrifice in exchange for the sin he allows?
If God was perfect, he would have everything. He certainly wouldn’t have any need for a human sacrifice.

(August 9, 2013 at 8:49 pm)themonkeyman Wrote: 6) As we know the Bible has been edited and re-written many times, do you think God would punish people for not believing when those same people want to believe but cannot because they cannot trust the Bible?
Yes because they should trust the bible irrespective – It’s God’s word and is never wrong.
Should I read The Bible?
-Yes
Why?
-It’s the word of God.
How do you know it’s the word of God?
-It says so in The Bible
Should I read The Bible?
And away we go!

(August 9, 2013 at 8:49 pm)themonkeyman Wrote: 7) Why would God punish us for eternity in hell for a Finite sin?
It’s not that he wants to punish us, It’s because it’s basically the final straw – God did all he could during our earthly lives after which we will be removed from his presence.
God did everything he could, but failed to accomplish his goal? Does this sound like a bullet on the resume of an omnipotent being?

(August 9, 2013 at 8:49 pm)themonkeyman Wrote: 8) Did God create evil?
No God created rules in which he deemed were against what his will was, People going against Gods will are evil.
People are acting in a manner that is consistent with their nature. If God created us, in his image, and we are born into sin, then we are inherently sinners as a product of God. There is no way to dodge this one, its irreconcilable.
Also, all of this is contingent upon free will being true. It has not been shown to be so. In fact, evidence is stacking up against it.
(August 9, 2013 at 8:49 pm)themonkeyman Wrote: 9) Why did God Punish Job?
Because Job was to act as an example for future generations.
Did God know that:
A: People would clearly not know it was supposed to be an example, but instead, have it be seen as an objection to his existence.
B: If God knew that is would not be an effective example, why did he do it anyway?

(August 9, 2013 at 8:49 pm)themonkeyman Wrote: 10) Why when I started breaking away from God and asked for him to Guide me one last chance did he ignore me?
It’s because for years you have been walking further and further away and you don’t know which way to turn this is of your own making.

First of all, How do they know that? Can they prove it? Secondly…
Christmas morning, a little girl is disappointed to see that there are no presents. She asks her Dad whether or not Santa is real.
The prideful and cruel Father that loses his job around Christmas time, tells his child that Santa is real, and that the reason she didn’t get presents this year was because she was bad and Santa didn’t come to her house this year.
The humble and loving Father that loses his job around Christmas time tells his child that she need not feel as though she’s been bad. He explains that he lost his job and didn’t have money for presents. He allows her to work out that Santa Claus is not real; that she did nothing wrong, and he loves her.

Would you prefer a harsh truth over a comforting lie?

I hope you can see the comparison.

(August 9, 2013 at 8:49 pm)themonkeyman Wrote: 11) If an Ancient Tribe has not heard about God where do they go?
They will go to heaven because they have now knowledge.
I hope there’s no rapists and murderers there. If there are, it seems that God favors rapists and murderers, so long as they’d never had the chance to reject a story another person told about His existence. Does that make sense to you?

(August 9, 2013 at 8:49 pm)themonkeyman Wrote: 12) So what you’re saying is that Christianity should not be preached as people who are ignorant can go to heaven yet those who hear Gods word and reject it will go to heaven?
Yes this is correct, it is because in their heart and mind and soul they will seek God.
Hmmm…The very act of human beings telling God stories makes us all more likely to go to hell?..AND..GOD TELLS HIS PEOPLE TO SPREAD THE WORD???? WHAT? What happened to all the important parts about A/S/K? I would be quite skeptical of this reasoning.

(August 9, 2013 at 8:49 pm)themonkeyman Wrote: 13) Would it not have been better not to have been born?
No because God gave us free will we then decided to go against it!
Free will? Did you get to choose that you would be born into a family that lives in say, America?
Did you choose to be born into a Christian Household?
Did the Hindu child choose his birth details?
Does anybody really have free will?

(August 9, 2013 at 8:49 pm)themonkeyman Wrote: 15) When God says ‘I AM’ he is meaning ‘Mind your own business’?
No God is saying that is name is the unspeakable name that the taught to Moses.
Hmmm…I don’t really understand this one. Not sure I see how its relevant.

(August 9, 2013 at 8:49 pm)themonkeyman Wrote: 16) Do you believe in the Book of Revelation?
I don’t know.
Refer to question number 6.
“Yes because they should trust the bible irrespective – It’s God’s word and is never wrong.”
Refer to my response to 6.



(August 9, 2013 at 8:49 pm)themonkeyman Wrote: 17) Do you believe it is in some way scriptural and literal?
I don’t know.
Refer to 6. Repeat as needed.

(August 9, 2013 at 8:49 pm)themonkeyman Wrote: 18) If someone decides not to believe in God throughout this life – Although God said he would cast people into the lake of fire for eternity, Do you think at the end he will save everyone?
No because God cannot show his Justice to these people if he saves them anyway?
How do you know that? Second, if I am free to do as I please, but God doesn’t want me with him, can I just disappear from existence? If I am subjected to hell and fire, what makes me think it will hurt if my physical body has ceased to live?


(August 9, 2013 at 8:49 pm)themonkeyman Wrote: 19) What if people in heaven pray to God to forgive them or to take pity, Surely Jesus said anything they ask for he will give them?
Yes but this does not show Gods love if he allows them forgiveness as he has to be a fair and Just God.
Fair to who? Would it be fair to ask the person, after they were standing in front of God, and could see heaven, and had all the information and evidence, would it be fair for God to ask the person if he was sure he really wanted to go to hell? Doesn’t that sound fair?

(August 9, 2013 at 8:49 pm)themonkeyman Wrote: 20) What is heaven like?
We worship and praise God forever!
That sounds like it sucks.
Reply
#18
RE: Encouragement and Advice
(August 9, 2013 at 8:49 pm)themonkeyman Wrote: 20) What is heaven like?
We worship and praise God forever!
That sounds awful.
Reply



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