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RE: Francis
September 21, 2013 at 2:28 pm
(This post was last modified: September 21, 2013 at 2:33 pm by Anomalocaris.)
(September 20, 2013 at 1:28 am)Minimalist Wrote: Well, that already puts him far above his predecessors but after a paragraph or two of the interviewer kissing his holy ass I lost patience with it.
He probably made the tactical calculation that Catholic church, not for the want of intent or effort, has really missed the boat in the death dive towards biblically medieval idiocy. He also probably calculated that while the world would always serve up sizeable puddle of Driches, Roneedees, Wooters and Statlers in each generation, but the center of gravity of the world has been and will continue to move slowly but inexorably away from this sort of buffoonery.
So rather than pore good money after the bad, or accept the position of an runner up to the evangelicals in that game, he decided to reposition the church and stake out a new play field in which he face much less competition, and in which the catholic church would have something like an first entrant's advantage in many ways.
For Catholic church, as with any organization long accustomed to undeserved and freely abused power, the ultimate objective is maintenance of that power in the face of any change. If being the ultimate reactionary seem to offer the best chance for that, the church will be the ultimate in reactionary. If being see to be less reactionary than its competitors seems to offer the best chance for that, it would embrace some progressive symbols .
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RE: Francis
September 26, 2013 at 7:39 pm
A friend of mine (a former atheist) sent this to me:
The Pope said an interesting thing in an interview:
“I remember, when I used go to Germany in the 1980s and ’90s, that I was asked to give interviews and I always knew the questions in advance. They concerned the ordination of women, contraception, abortion and other such constantly recurring problems. If we let ourselves be drawn into these discussions, the Church is then identified with certain commandments or prohibitions; we give the impression that we are moralists with a few somewhat antiquated convictions, and not even a hint of the true greatness of the faith appears. I therefore consider it essential always to highlight the greatness of our faith – a commitment from which we must not allow such situations to divert us. ”
Except it was Pope Benedict, in 2006.
When Pope Francis said something very much like this a week ago in the America Mag interview, the media went into a frenzy, speculating that Pope Francis would change Church doctrine on these teachings. Catholic and non-religious media both praised Pope Francis for his new emphasis, for his openness, for his compassion, etc., all the while slamming (directly or by implication) that ol' meanie Pope Benedict. As we all know (don't we?), Pope Benedict concentrated on these heartless teachings all the time! And he was so strict and inflexible and etc. etc. etc.
Both Holy Fathers said virtually the same thing, about the same topics, in the same way. What a remarkable continuity between Popes. Gosh, if two Popes are saying exactly the same thing...it might even be right! The Gospel message of salvation first; moral teachings after.
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RE: Francis
September 26, 2013 at 7:43 pm
For once I agree with you, Max. This guy is just the same old shit. He is merely better at marketing than Herr Von Popenfuhrer. Sooner or later people will realize that all the marketing in the world won't help if the product you are selling is garbage.
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RE: Francis
September 26, 2013 at 7:47 pm
A continuity of agreement between popes is actually frightening. How many innocent dead were condemned by papal bull?
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RE: Francis
September 26, 2013 at 8:01 pm
(This post was last modified: September 26, 2013 at 8:03 pm by Lion IRC.)
(September 26, 2013 at 7:39 pm)Max_Kolbe Wrote: The Gospel message of salvation first; moral teachings after.
Salvation for who? And salvation from what?
"Good teacher, what must I do to be saved?"
...what's that Jesus? Come again? I didn't quite hear you.
It sounded a bit like you said something regarding sex outside marriage, murder, abortion, stealing, lying, worshipping mamon,
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RE: Francis
September 26, 2013 at 9:56 pm
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RE: Francis
September 26, 2013 at 10:08 pm
But does he shit in the woods?
At the age of five, Skagra decided emphatically that God did not exist. This revelation tends to make most people in the universe who have it react in one of two ways - with relief or with despair. Only Skagra responded to it by thinking, 'Wait a second. That means there's a situation vacant.'
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RE: Francis
September 26, 2013 at 10:24 pm
Too bad he can't burn him at the stake like in the good old days, huh?
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RE: Francis
September 26, 2013 at 10:40 pm
(September 26, 2013 at 10:24 pm)Minimalist Wrote: Too bad he can't burn him at the stake like in the good old days, huh?
Give it time. 
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