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RE: Purchasing One's Atheism Cheaply
October 15, 2013 at 4:05 am
(October 15, 2013 at 2:51 am)Vincenzo "Vinny" G. Wrote: (October 15, 2013 at 1:22 am)pocaracas Wrote: I see you've added the extra "some"... trying to make up for past mistakes?
That doesn't answer the question. If you can't find a problem with the reasoning, best take your own advice and keep your mouth shut.
How does it feel to have the tables turned on you? 
hehe
Well, there was no question that I was aware of answering...
And an atheist who claims that "god does not exist" is espousing a view pertaining to the non-existence of that god.... not to its existence.... I can understand how you may have mistaken the two... again, context helps.
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RE: Purchasing One's Atheism Cheaply
October 15, 2013 at 4:07 am
(October 11, 2013 at 2:56 pm)Sword of Christ Wrote: (October 9, 2013 at 5:17 pm)Fidel_Castronaut Wrote: I was born an atheist.
You born without any metaphysical belief but you were also born without any toilet training.
toilets exist , the metaphysical doesnt .
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RE: Purchasing One's Atheism Cheaply
October 15, 2013 at 10:09 am
(October 14, 2013 at 11:16 pm)Vincenzo "Vinny" G. Wrote: A first step to understanding any view, be it theism, atheism or any view in between, is to think clearly and stick to the logic rather than personal attacks. I agree. Sometimes people don't express themselves perfectly clearly, but willfully misunderstanding them doesn't help anyone get anywhere. And I see you making personal attacks and other people making personal attacks on you, and it goes round and round. I'm suggesting that you be the bigger person and break this cycle. Your apology below is a step in the right direction.
Quote:If you are prone to complain about word games any time someone calls out bullshit definitions, you will never learn very much.
You didn't call Deidre out on a bullshit definition. It appears that you deliberately misunderstood her with the whole "atheists reject everything and believe in nothing" canard, which gets tiresome, and which I think you know is not true. Word games are never helpful, even if you think a definition is BS. They only derail useful communication. And I repeat, you are not the only one doing this, and I think there's a certain amount of baiting here that, as the batter at the plate representing your team, is hard not to give into.
Quote:PS- Sorry if I come across patronizing. Some days I have a low tolerance for idiots.
Often you do, and I think it's a reflex action of your viewing yourself as a single warrior facing an enemy army. I don't think Deidre is an idiot. She communicated her POV, and I don't think she expected it would be put under a microscope to find every undotted i. There's no need to patronize her. Civil disagreement is possible- you and I are doing it right now.
Quote:I know many posters here are weak in their thinking skills
Here's a prime example. This is what sets off rounds of "no, YOU'RE an idiot," and no one understands anyone else any better. There are people who make weak arguments everywhere (everyone has done it- that's how we learn to make stronger arguments), but that doesn't make them weak thinkers.
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RE: Purchasing One's Atheism Cheaply
October 15, 2013 at 11:02 am
My agnosticism (born out the unwillingness to say there is not a deity of any kind) I took alot of time to make sure what choice was indeed the best course of action based on the information at hand. I know there is plenty of worldly evidence of the fact there is no "loving" personal deity. At least no evidence I can see at the moment, but as any true intellectual I can always be corrected and wrong. Just with the information I currently have I believe I made the right choice.
![[Image: grumpy-cat-and-jesus-meme-died-for-sins.jpg]](https://images.weserv.nl/?url=1.bp.blogspot.com%2F-_GaCN-f8ZFo%2FUNfmimTyf4I%2FAAAAAAAANmk%2FoakT_wL319U%2Fs1600%2Fgrumpy-cat-and-jesus-meme-died-for-sins.jpg)
I would be a televangelist....but I have too much of a soul.
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RE: Purchasing One's Atheism Cheaply
October 15, 2013 at 1:14 pm
Zazzy, vinny is a piece of shit scumbag who doesn't deserve an ounce of respect from anyone. Did you see what he wrote? We all know what i'm talking about. Maybe you should look it up. Its a miracle he's back on this forum and not banned for ever
'The more I learn about people the more I like my dog'- Mark Twain
'You can have all the faith you want in spirits, and the afterlife, and heaven and hell, but when it comes to this world, don't be an idiot. Cause you can tell me you put your faith in God to put you through the day, but when it comes time to cross the road, I know you look both ways.' - Dr House
“Young earth creationism is essentially the position that all of modern science, 90% of living scientists and 98% of living biologists, all major university biology departments, every major science journal, the American Academy of Sciences, and every major science organization in the world, are all wrong regarding the origins and development of life….but one particular tribe of uneducated, bronze aged, goat herders got it exactly right.” - Chuck Easttom
"If my good friend Doctor Gasparri speaks badly of my mother, he can expect to get punched.....You cannot provoke. You cannot insult the faith of others. You cannot make fun of the faith of others. There is a limit." - Pope Francis on freedom of speech
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RE: Purchasing One's Atheism Cheaply
October 15, 2013 at 1:21 pm
(October 15, 2013 at 1:14 pm)Rationalman Wrote: Zazzy, vinny is a piece of shit scumbag who doesn't deserve an ounce of respect from anyone. Did you see what he wrote? We all know what i'm talking about. Maybe you should look it up. Its a miracle he's back on this forum and not banned for ever I don't know what he wrote, and without any kind of keyword I can't look it up. I tend to deal with people as they deal with me, and I see some willingness on his part to communicate. Will it last? Who can say. I just don't see the point of getting really worked up over crap people say on the internet.
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RE: Purchasing One's Atheism Cheaply
October 15, 2013 at 2:31 pm
(October 15, 2013 at 1:21 pm)Zazzy Wrote: I don't know what he wrote, and without any kind of keyword I can't look it up. I tend to deal with people as they deal with me, and I see some willingness on his part to communicate. Will it last? Who can say. I just don't see the point of getting really worked up over crap people say on the internet.
Ask 'The Germans Are Coming' He feels even more strongly about this than i do. He knows where to look
'The more I learn about people the more I like my dog'- Mark Twain
'You can have all the faith you want in spirits, and the afterlife, and heaven and hell, but when it comes to this world, don't be an idiot. Cause you can tell me you put your faith in God to put you through the day, but when it comes time to cross the road, I know you look both ways.' - Dr House
“Young earth creationism is essentially the position that all of modern science, 90% of living scientists and 98% of living biologists, all major university biology departments, every major science journal, the American Academy of Sciences, and every major science organization in the world, are all wrong regarding the origins and development of life….but one particular tribe of uneducated, bronze aged, goat herders got it exactly right.” - Chuck Easttom
"If my good friend Doctor Gasparri speaks badly of my mother, he can expect to get punched.....You cannot provoke. You cannot insult the faith of others. You cannot make fun of the faith of others. There is a limit." - Pope Francis on freedom of speech
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RE: Purchasing One's Atheism Cheaply
October 15, 2013 at 3:55 pm
(This post was last modified: October 15, 2013 at 3:56 pm by Vincenzo Vinny G..)
(October 15, 2013 at 4:05 am)pocaracas Wrote: (October 15, 2013 at 2:51 am)Vincenzo "Vinny" G. Wrote: That doesn't answer the question. If you can't find a problem with the reasoning, best take your own advice and keep your mouth shut.
How does it feel to have the tables turned on you?
hehe
Well, there was no question that I was aware of answering...
And an atheist who claims that "god does not exist" is espousing a view pertaining to the non-existence of that god.... not to its existence.... I can understand how you may have mistaken the two... again, context helps.
Actually, this is wrong, not just in formal logic, but even in common everyday usage.
Formally, ¬P is as much a statement about P as P, namely "P is false". I don't know what level of computer science education you have, but something like this should be covered in your education either now or down the road because it's my understanding that CS uses a lot of logic in programming.
In everyday parlance, if you ask someone "What do you think about gay marriage?" an opponent of legalizing gay marriage will not say "I have no view about gay marriage". They will have a view, and their view is ¬P, where P = "The government should legalize gay marriage".
So you are wrong both formally and in common usage. Same with Zazzy and Deirdre (although Zazzy now claims to not agree with Deirdre, smart boy  ). Only you keep wanting to dig this hole deeper for yourself, which is no surprising seeing as how you were doing it in the philosophy of mind discussion, claiming you could solve a problem with computer science 101 where Steven Pinker and VS Ramachandran couldn't solve it. Typical internet atheist schtick. 
But your own common sense should tell you that this is how logic works. Someone who believes "We should not attack Syria" actually holds a view about attacking Syria. If you said this person holds to no view about Syria, you would be an idiot.
I'm assuming here you're more interested in the precise way in which we process these things and in not scoring cheap argument points to hide your mistake. But we never know which you're really interested in.
Either way, this is your answer. If Deirdre or Zazzy are interested in educating themselves, this is to them too.
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RE: Purchasing One's Atheism Cheaply
October 15, 2013 at 4:11 pm
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RE: Purchasing One's Atheism Cheaply
October 15, 2013 at 4:41 pm
(October 15, 2013 at 3:55 pm)Vincenzo "Vinny" G. Wrote: (although Zazzy now claims to not agree with Deirdre, smart boy ). I'm a woman. And I never claimed to agree with Deidre. I'd actually have to go back and read her post to remember what she said past when you word-gamed her. And you're STILL willfully misunderstanding me if you are going to insist that I am taking a position I never took. It's disappointing, but I'm sure I'll get over it.
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