Where did the universe come from? Atheistic origin science has no answer.

[StuW]

if you want to bring up sunsets. What you're looking at is a God made piece of art.

What you are looking at is refraction of the light from the Sun being bent to different wavelengths due to differing density's of atmosphere at different angles of entry, no supernatural beings needed.

[daandaan]

if you want to bring up sunsets. What you're looking at is a God made piece of art.

What you are looking at is refraction of the light from the Sun being bent to different wavelengths due to differing density's of atmosphere at different angles of entry, no supernatural beings needed.

its the shine of sunrays trough the fabric of the tent its entering to rest ..........


hahahahahahahahaha

[Sword of Christ]

What you are looking at is refraction of the light from the Sun being bent to different wavelengths due to differing density's of atmosphere at different angles of entry, no supernatural beings needed.

If you want to look at it as a machine would sure. In the image of God you can appreciate the beauty of Gods living creation and see that it is good.

of course not ..u r proving that all has come about by natural forces..no magic man needed..

What you really need is random chance and purposeless coincidence? If you say so.

yesterday u stated god is eternity
a moment ago u stated god is god

God is the eternal creator of the universe and all beings who exist. That's the idea what did you think God was exactly?

i asked u to what r u praying ...eternity ?? or god ??

Well God of course, much of what I practice is contemplative prayer though I have some favored verbal prayers. Not all of them are Christian prayers I throw the odd Hindu and Buddhist one in there, there's a good Zoroastrian prayer I like as well. But you can't beat a good Lords Prayer a particularly potent one if you pray it well.

"Our Father in heaven,
hallowed be your name.
Your Kingdom come,
your will be done,
on earth as in heaven
Give us today our daily bread.
Forgive us our sins,
as we forgive those who sin against us.
Lead us not into temptation,
but deliver us from evil.
For the kingdom,
the power and the glory are yours.
Now and for ever.
Amen."

Try it yourself, make sure you put some meaning into it. For contemplative prayer and counting prayer that has a number of repetitions I find a rosary useful.

[StuW]

ffs i give up, that's some strong stuff you're smoking..

[Lemonvariable72]

What you are looking at is refraction of the light from the Sun being bent to different wavelengths due to differing density's of atmosphere at different angles of entry, no supernatural beings needed.

If you want to look at it as a machine would sure. In the image of God you can appreciate the beauty of Gods living creation and see that it is good.

Are telling me that because I understand the process and see no god that I cannot see it's beauty? Why do you presume to speak for others, and how they feel? I think that understanding the process adds to the beauty. A nuclear fire a million miles away, creates particles that race faster then anything else we know, the particles that give us sight collide with the thin shield that defends us from space. And in this collision cones the colors that we see in sun set. That is beautiful enough to leave your god grotesque in comparison.

[Cyberman]

Penis of Cod, what is the purpose of a flower? Of a sunset? Of a star?

Flowering and fruit, crops are for agriculture if you go back to say the Carboniferous all you would really have to eat are some fern and bracken or whatever.

Sorry, you'll just have to imagine the QI klaxon. The purpose of a flower is for sexual propagation of the plant species, but for the plant itself the only purpose is the processing of light and carbon into sugars (this is only true of course for oxygenating plants containing chlorophyll). Agriculture is a human-imposed purpose, nothing whatsoever to do with the plant. If anything, it could be argued that the purpose of humanity and pollenating insects is the survival of the vegetable races.

You can see there how there isn't much in the way of decent grub to sustain a global civilisation.

Doesn't matter, it has nothing to do with any perceived purpose of plants. Stop thinking so anthropically.

Stars essentially have two main important functions for life.

I don't care, I never mentioned life.

1) They are the primary energy source for all living processes for the deep sea thermal vent dwellers. In the food chain/web it provides the means of food production of the primary producers.



2) The larger short lived stars are the factories for producing the heavy elements required to manufacture smaller long lived stars with orbiting planets.

Both of these are completely incidental to a star's purpose, if such a term can be applied at all. A star converts hydrogen into helium and that is all that would concern it if it could be concerned. Once it has to face the battle for continued survival over gravitational collapse, then and only then comes the question of heavier elements. However, precisely none of this happens for the benefit of any lifeforms that may happen to be around.

Humans can of course appreciate the natural beauty of the God created universe if you want to bring up sunsets.

Again I don't care. We were talking purpose, not human interpretation.

What you're looking at is a God made piece of art.

So is this:



Those are ants infected by a parasitic plant spore called Ophiocordyceps unilateralis, which grows inside its body and controls its brain to make it climb a tree, jam its mandibles into the bark and wait for death, whereupon the parasite bursts out from its brain and generates more spores. All things bright and beautiful indeed, but again what is the purpose?

[pocaracas]

Those are ants infected by a parasitic plant spore called Ophiocordyceps unilateralis, which grows inside its body and controls its brain to make it climb a tree, jam its mandibles into the bark and wait for death, whereupon the parasite bursts out from its brain and generates more spores. All things bright and beautiful indeed, but again what is the purpose?

Glad to see you're back, man!

Now, why didn't you depict a few such parasites on humans? I'm sure there's a few gross pics out there...

[Faith No More]

ffs i give up, that's some strong stuff you're smoking..

No drugs. Just brain damage. Apparently, god likes 'em stupid.

[pocaracas]

ffs i give up, that's some strong stuff you're smoking..

No drugs. Just brain damage. Apparently, god likes 'em stupid.

Actually, it's just an unnatural development of a few specific synapses in the young and impressionable brain. After the 13th year of life, those synapses are permanent, leading to some uncomfortable situations... mentally speaking!
Those situations lead to something called apologia.... the adult brain making some sense out of these idiotic synapses that were created in the young brain.


Can I get my nobel prize, now?

[Sword of Christ]

Sorry, you'll just have to imagine the QI klaxon. The purpose of a flower is for sexual propagation of the plant species, but for the plant itself the only purpose is the processing of light and carbon into sugars (this is only true of course for oxygenating plants containing chlorophyll).

True yes but then the more complex flowering structures can only evolve once the more primitive spore producing plants have established themselves. What you're looking at is some kind of global scale natural cycle here. I wouldn't pretend to know all the details of it just going on what can be observed and the outcome all of this allowed for. The building blocks of life is a process that is within the universe as a whole this being the purpose to which it was created for. You will find nothing here that contradicts known science, Darwinian natural selection is still at work as part of the process of course no creationism required. It's only the universe as a whole that had to be created for this process to come into effect.

Agriculture is a human-imposed purpose, nothing whatsoever to do with the plant. If anything, it could be argued that the purpose of humanity and pollenating insects is the survival of the vegetable races.

Can you build agriculture on bracken and amphibians? The planet as a whole has to be able to sustain civilized life and that is the way it developed. We can of course see how it developed thanks to the fossil record.

Doesn't matter, it has nothing to do with any perceived purpose of plants. Stop thinking so anthropically.

If the universe is created by a supreme intelligence/God then the anthropic principal does somewhat apply. The question is whether what we observe of the universe would fit such a created intentionally made natural order. I'm saying it does and pointing out what we can see right there. You're presupposing purposeless coincidence so I guess you won't be able to appreciate any of it. Surely this must seem like an incredible coincidence to you? Look at all the work that had to go into all this for us to be here at all, look at how precise everything had to be. This just washes over you? It's difficult to know how to respond to this really. Hopefully you can appreciate the validity of a purpose/God made universe in the context of modern scientific knowledge. If I can do that at least that's something. The mistake many Christians/theists make is they don't tackle the scientific side of things at all, it's important to explain how the universe is an intentional God made creation, without claiming the Earth to be 6000 years old. We know it's 4 billion years old and we know evolution or a transmutation of species occurred there is no denying that.

I don't care, I never mentioned life.

You asked what the purpose of stars was and within the context of a universe created for life, as this universe undoubtedly was, they serve quite a significant purpose. They form part of a very elaborate system/process. As I'm sure you can appreciate if you know the science behind all this. We're even made from star material.

Both of these are completely incidental to a star's purpose, if such a term can be applied at all. A star converts hydrogen into helium and that is all that would concern it if it could be concerned.

All part of Gods intentional design. Heck for the stars to form at all the laws of physics had to be tuned to absolute perfection don't think there was a margin for error here.

Once it has to face the battle for continued survival over gravitational collapse, then and only then comes the question of heavier elements. However, precisely none of this happens for the benefit of any lifeforms that may happen to be around.

Lifeforms wouldn't be able to form without this process of stellar fusion and the ejection of these elements into the wider universe following supernova. These elements are the building blocks required for life. Like I already mention we are made from this star stuff.

Again I don't care. We were talking purpose, not human interpretation.

You're interpreting it all as purposeless or coincidental, unplanned. But that's because you don't believe in God. I don't know how it's not an interpretation you do it yourself.

Those are ants infected by a parasitic plant spore called Ophiocordyceps unilateralis, which grows inside its body and controls its brain to make it climb a tree, jam its mandibles into the bark and wait for death, whereupon the parasite bursts out from its brain and generates more spores. All things bright and beautiful indeed, but again what is the purpose?

Yes but you may as well point out how there is no life on Venus or Mars (well there may possibly be on Mars or there was at some point) I didn't say every small detail was micromanaged to every last detail the natural order has some degree of freedom to develop in certain ways and forms. Sometimes it's not always something entirely pleasant as in the example of parasites but these things did evolve because there is niche for exploitative organisms it can't be avoided. There is also of course for humanity/civilized life. And here we are, as planned.