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RE: Where did the universe come from? Atheistic origin science has no answer.
April 8, 2014 at 9:18 pm
(April 8, 2014 at 6:58 am)truthBtold Wrote: What gets me is that... this "god" gets inserted .. wtf!!
Creationists are just like any other cheats. They can't play the game without palming a card.
At the age of five, Skagra decided emphatically that God did not exist. This revelation tends to make most people in the universe who have it react in one of two ways - with relief or with despair. Only Skagra responded to it by thinking, 'Wait a second. That means there's a situation vacant.'
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RE: Where did the universe come from? Atheistic origin science has no answer.
April 8, 2014 at 9:20 pm
(April 8, 2014 at 9:18 pm)Stimbo Wrote: (April 8, 2014 at 6:58 am)truthBtold Wrote: What gets me is that... this "god" gets inserted .. wtf!!
Creationists are just like any other cheats. They can't play the game without palming a card.
I'm sure that's not the only thing they're palming.
Playing Cluedo with my mum while I was at Uni:
"You did WHAT? With WHO? WHERE???"
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RE: Where did the universe come from? Atheistic origin science has no answer.
April 9, 2014 at 2:29 am
(April 8, 2014 at 2:47 am)pocaracas Wrote: A table begins to exist, because someone converts wood into a finished product.
A cloud begins to exist because heat from the sun causes water in the ocean to evaporate and accumulate somewhere in the atmosphere.
A star begins to exist when a cloud of hydrogen, through the action of gravity, clumps together so tightly that the hydrogen atoms are forced to fuse creating helium atoms in the process and releasing a lot of energy in the form of light and radiation.
Etc.Etc.Etc...
Anything that we're commonly aware of has a precondition that results in that thing.
The counterintuitive science has discovered that some particles can, occasionally, be created out of quantum foam, a virtual field (or fields ) which have no real expression except when they cause such real fields (like particles).
The universe may have come into existence through such quantum foam... or some other process that we are not aware of yet.
Regardless of the potential mechanisms for it, we weren't there, so scientists will be hard pressed to convince ignorant indoctrinated imps... we can only hope that future generations will not be so ignorant and, as a result, will not be so indoctrinated.
Did the universe have a beginning? Perhaps...Some people may tell you that the big bang also created space- time, for both those dimensions become null at the singularity... others may tell you that the singularity was simply compressing pre-existing space-time into one point and then expanded that. Some may tell you that other similar singularities (like those found in black holes) can sprout other universes.
The truth, however, is that we can't say for sure if the universe had a beginning.
So, premise one and two are faulty...your conclusion, however logically accurate, is also faulty.
There's your Gibraltar stone...
if your argument is angling towards that universe came from 'nothing' that would be accordance with the historical christianity belief in creation ex nihilo. that is: all matter, energy, time, and space previously didn't exist --- no preexistent physical reality.
Atheist Credo: A universe by chance that also just happened to admit the observer by chance.
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RE: Where did the universe come from? Atheistic origin science has no answer.
April 9, 2014 at 2:36 am
(April 9, 2014 at 2:29 am)snowtracks Wrote: (April 8, 2014 at 2:47 am)pocaracas Wrote: A table begins to exist, because someone converts wood into a finished product.
A cloud begins to exist because heat from the sun causes water in the ocean to evaporate and accumulate somewhere in the atmosphere.
A star begins to exist when a cloud of hydrogen, through the action of gravity, clumps together so tightly that the hydrogen atoms are forced to fuse creating helium atoms in the process and releasing a lot of energy in the form of light and radiation.
Etc.Etc.Etc...
Anything that we're commonly aware of has a precondition that results in that thing.
The counterintuitive science has discovered that some particles can, occasionally, be created out of quantum foam, a virtual field (or fields ) which have no real expression except when they cause such real fields (like particles).
The universe may have come into existence through such quantum foam... or some other process that we are not aware of yet.
Regardless of the potential mechanisms for it, we weren't there, so scientists will be hard pressed to convince ignorant indoctrinated imps... we can only hope that future generations will not be so ignorant and, as a result, will not be so indoctrinated.
Did the universe have a beginning? Perhaps...Some people may tell you that the big bang also created space- time, for both those dimensions become null at the singularity... others may tell you that the singularity was simply compressing pre-existing space-time into one point and then expanded that. Some may tell you that other similar singularities (like those found in black holes) can sprout other universes.
The truth, however, is that we can't say for sure if the universe had a beginning.
So, premise one and two are faulty...your conclusion, however logically accurate, is also faulty.
There's your Gibraltar stone...
if your argument is angling towards that universe came from 'nothing' that would be accordance with the historical christianity belief in creation ex nihilo. that is: all matter, energy, time, and space previously didn't exist --- no preexistent physical reality. No... the clue was on the "perhaps".
We don't know enough to say that your premises are true, so your conclusion is not guaranteed to be true.
In fact, it seems that all matter and energy of the known universe came from that quantum foam...not ex nihilo.
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RE: Where did the universe come from? Atheistic origin science has no answer.
April 9, 2014 at 3:12 am
(April 9, 2014 at 2:29 am)snowtracks Wrote: if your argument is angling towards that universe came from 'nothing' that would be accordance with the historical christianity belief in creation ex nihilo. that is: all matter, energy, time, and space previously didn't exist --- no preexistent physical reality.
No evidence of a god, either. 
"YOU take the hard look in the mirror. You are everything that is wrong with this world. The only thing important to you, is you." - ronedee
Want to see more of my writing? Check out my (safe for work!) site, Unprotected Sects!
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RE: Where did the universe come from? Atheistic origin science has no answer.
April 9, 2014 at 11:11 pm
(April 9, 2014 at 2:36 am)pocaracas Wrote: (April 9, 2014 at 2:29 am)snowtracks Wrote: if your argument is angling towards that universe came from 'nothing' that would be accordance with the historical christianity belief in creation ex nihilo. that is: all matter, energy, time, and space previously didn't exist --- no preexistent physical reality. No... the clue was on the "perhaps".
We don't know enough to say that your premises are true, so your conclusion is not guaranteed to be true.
In fact, it seems that all matter and energy of the known universe came from that quantum foam...not ex nihilo. you have manage to have squeezed right into the sweet spot: no infinite God and no state of nothingness. but and infinite regression of energy and matter. myself, just thinking about it, seems 'nothing' existing would be a better viable speculation than forever foam.
Atheist Credo: A universe by chance that also just happened to admit the observer by chance.
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RE: Where did the universe come from? Atheistic origin science has no answer.
April 9, 2014 at 11:18 pm
(April 9, 2014 at 11:11 pm)snowtracks Wrote: you have manage to have squeezed right into the sweet spot: no infinite God and no state of nothingness. but and infinite regression of energy and matter. myself, just thinking about it, seems 'nothing' existing would be a better viable speculation than forever foam.
And we swing right back around to an argument from personal incredulity.
"YOU take the hard look in the mirror. You are everything that is wrong with this world. The only thing important to you, is you." - ronedee
Want to see more of my writing? Check out my (safe for work!) site, Unprotected Sects!
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RE: Where did the universe come from? Atheistic origin science has no answer.
April 10, 2014 at 12:49 am
(April 8, 2014 at 2:47 am)pocaracas Wrote: A table begins to exist, because someone converts wood into a finished product.
A cloud begins to exist because heat from the sun causes water in the ocean to evaporate and accumulate somewhere in the atmosphere.
A star begins to exist when a cloud of hydrogen, through the action of gravity, clumps together so tightly that the hydrogen atoms are forced to fuse creating helium atoms in the process and releasing a lot of energy in the form of light and radiation.
Etc.Etc.Etc...
Anything that we're commonly aware of has a precondition that results in that thing.
The counterintuitive science has discovered that some particles can, occasionally, be created out of quantum foam, a virtual field (or fields ) which have no real expression except when they cause such real fields (like particles).
The universe may have come into existence through such quantum foam... or some other process that we are not aware of yet.
Regardless of the potential mechanisms for it, we weren't there, so scientists will be hard pressed to convince ignorant indoctrinated imps... we can only hope that future generations will not be so ignorant and, as a result, will not be so indoctrinated.
Did the universe have a beginning? Perhaps...Some people may tell you that the big bang also created space- time, for both those dimensions become null at the singularity... others may tell you that the singularity was simply compressing pre-existing space-time into one point and then expanded that. Some may tell you that other similar singularities (like those found in black holes) can sprout other universes.
The truth, however, is that we can't say for sure if the universe had a beginning.
So, premise one and two are faulty...your conclusion, however logically accurate, is also faulty.
There's your Gibraltar stone...
where did the foam come from?
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RE: Where did the universe come from? Atheistic origin science has no answer.
April 10, 2014 at 12:53 am
(April 10, 2014 at 12:49 am)Revelation777 Wrote: where did the foam come from?
Ain't you been listening? It comes from nothing!
Don't pretend like you've got some step up on us, by the way; you believe something comes from nothing too, you've just twisted the language, called it eternal as though that makes it better. Well, the foam is eternal too, so... whatever. 
"YOU take the hard look in the mirror. You are everything that is wrong with this world. The only thing important to you, is you." - ronedee
Want to see more of my writing? Check out my (safe for work!) site, Unprotected Sects!
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RE: Where did the universe come from? Atheistic origin science has no answer.
April 10, 2014 at 12:58 am
(April 10, 2014 at 12:53 am)Esquilax Wrote: (April 10, 2014 at 12:49 am)Revelation777 Wrote: where did the foam come from?
Ain't you been listening? It comes from nothing!
Don't pretend like you've got some step up on us, by the way; you believe something comes from nothing too, you've just twisted the language, called it eternal as though that makes it better. Well, the foam is eternal too, so... whatever.
eternal foam?
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