Question for Christian Ballbags here

[Godscreated]

How is it you manage to misunderstand everything Christians write, John V said God is not all loving, I said God loves all people, there's a tremendous difference here. God is not all loving He hates sin, He hates being disobeyed. Can you possibly see the difference here?

GC

Look up omnibenevolent and get back to us.

Show me the verses in scripture that says God is omnibenevolent. Omnibenevolent has nothing to do with loving people.

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How is it you manage to misunderstand everything Christians write, John V said God is not all loving, I said God loves all people,

All-loving implies loving everyone, that's what the context of John's post was, dumbass.

No it wasn't, and name calling fits you well.

GC

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Most Christians would see me as a Southern Baptist believing in eternal security, the scriptures do not teach that IMO.

GC

[Minimalist]

It's unclear what blaspheming against the Holy Spirit entails but we can assume it's something particularly bad.

It means this. You previously accepted Christ into your heart, have been fully exposed to gifts of the Holy Spirit, and despite this permanently harden your heart against Him.* It's the former believer that now hates everything to do with religion so much that he is no longer capable of repenting. I hope and pray that even some of the more aggressive and vulgar forum members that used to be Christian do not fall into this category.

*Of course if you believe in "eternal security" then you would not agree with this interpretation.

That's not what this bunch of xtian dirtbags have to say.

http://www.raptureready.com/faq/faq307.html

In Matthew 12, we read that Jesus healed a man of demon possession. The Pharisees, who witnessed this miracle, in essence said that Jesus was able to cast out the demon because He was the ruler of demons. Jesus' reply to them was that they blasphemed the Holy Spirit, for which they could never be forgiven.

How come you people can never get your story straight?

[Tonus]

Yeah, that was how I always saw it. As I understood it, the Pharisees saw the miracles Jesus was performing and understood (as the common folk did) that it had to be something from god, but since they didn't like the version of Jesus that was granted them (telling them to be nice to others and turn the other cheek, instead of getting on his magic horse and slaughtering the infidels) they slandered him by saying he was working with the devil instead of god. By purposely slandering his work in order to get people to turn away, they were acting just like the devil in the garden of Eden, and that was unforgivable in god's eyes.

[downbeatplumb]

Not all are, but we are all slaves to sin. God did not create man with a predisposition for sin. Man choose to sin, and then reproduced replicating being predisposed to sin.

You speak for yourself. Don't project your debauchery on me.

[Drich]

God provides 'proof' for all of those who Ask, Seek, Knock.

Too bad that the biblical formula for the 'proof of god' (the holy spirit) fails.

No. Nothing we can say or do will Make you do anything. The purpose of me being here is to answer questions so you can make an informed desision as to where you want to spend eternity. I do not care what you choose for yourself, so long as you make a choice knowing full well the decision that you have made. That said it is my hope to see a few of you on the otherside.\

(My bolding) Why do you continue to avoid my questions from HERE?

Please respond to this post HERE so this thread does not get derailed and so this is not the 4th thread our discussion is spread over.

Apart of answering questions is admitting that not everyone will get a satisfactory answer at least from their pov. You got an answer whether like what I had to say or not.

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No Christians here have said God does not love everyone, that would be to deny scripture.

GC

Talk to Drich, because he in fact has said that god's love is conditional.

...and once one meets those conditions, His love for that person will be found to be boundless.

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Esquilax, Rich is not displaying ego so much as expressing his dismay. I often feel the same way. Both of us have been called liars and worse. But we are big boys and can handle it. There's plenty of reflexive dismissals to go around.

Which I would accept, if that wasn't his only note whenever someone disagrees.

I guess what frustrates me about it is that it totally stifles any kind of continuing discourse; he presents his point, someone disagrees, and instead of providing additional information or a refutation, he races to condemn the person doing the disagreeing... and then that's the end. There's no way to debate a person whose sole response is not to defend his argument, but to attack anyone who disagrees. That's also why it feels like ego; at a certain point it stops seeming like a point he's making and starts feeling like a defense mechanism from a person who can't imagine his ideas not being totally convincing.

When I approach a question I answer by first laying down a foundation usually based on the scriptural text the principle is founded or some sort of definition supported by referemce material, or something based on some sort of verifiable, well documented source. When you all tend to disagree, I generally get a "nut-uh" based on a feeling or the general sense that you simply know better. When to me I see the only legitimate way to 'disagree' with a conclusion based on some sort of reference material is to provide a stronger reference or to show the the current reference material is being used in error. This rarely with only one or two people ever happens.

I get a general dismissal based on feeling. You guys claim you want 'proof', but when it it provided you default to faith. Bottom line is the majority simply do not Want to believe in anything they do not already acknowledge.

[Esquilax]

When I approach a question I answer by first laying down a foundation usually based on the scriptural text the principle is founded or some sort of definition supported by referemce material, or something based on some sort of verifiable, well documented source. When you all tend to disagree, I generally get a "nut-uh" based on a feeling or the general sense that you simply know better. When to me I see the only legitimate way to 'disagree' with a conclusion based on some sort of reference material is to provide a stronger reference or to show the the current reference material is being used in error. This rarely with only one or two people ever happens.

I get a general dismissal based on feeling. You guys claim you want 'proof', but when it it provided you default to faith. Bottom line is the majority simply do not Want to believe in anything they do not already acknowledge.

If you read the posts we write to you, and all you get is "nuh-uh," then your reading comprehension is utterly terrible. I'm sorry, that's just the way it is; I've seen lengthy, intelligent posts that must have taken quite a bit of time to write, ignored by you in favor of repeating your A/S/K nonsense, despite the best efforts of many of us to disabuse you of this. I've seen brief, snarky yet sincere posts become the subject of irritable rants about your faith, and more commonly unverifiable assertions in place of facts.

The best you could say is that you get back what you give out, Drich.

[Drich]

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My Reply: So you are saying that the Dead Sea has been parted more recently. Are you saying that thousands of people have risen from the dead. Are you saying that Goliath is wandering the earth. Are you saying that the Tower of Babel really existed.

Are you saying that even when these things happened they happened more than once? Then why by your logic must they happen again?

If you say miracles have occured then prove them and not just a miracle that could bexplained with a little reason and logic. A Miracle which leaves me wondering - What the fuck. Like a Stick turning into a snake is a kinda big deal for me. As is turning the Dead Sea red!

before I help you chase your tail, first you must give me some reasonable explaination as to why a mirical can not have or must not be able to be explained.

For according to the bible what makes a mirical a mirical is not the fact that it can not be explained, but the fact that God is working/helping someone over come an obstical in their walk. Whether or not we understand how God help a person over come this obstical is meaningless to the fact that God personally worked a mirical in someone's life.

Remember God is the creator of the known universe, so how does it make sense that God must circumvent the process, and natural laws HE put into place everytime He wants something done? Wouldn't an all knowing/all powerful God put natural laws into place to help Him accomplish His will, rather than have to fight the natural laws everytime He does something?

Also remember science is simply the study of God's natural laws, and as such the more we know the less mystery there is that surrounds how God chooses to work in this world.

My Reply: So what Jesus essentially said is to believe in him we must be ignorant of everything else we know to be true and believe in Blind faith.

no, what Jesus said is do not approach God expecting to know or understand. Approach Him willing to learn. Children ask questions about everything. Adults pretend to know everything. Christ is saying don't pretend to know. Humble yourself and ask questions. Ask even basic one. Why is the sky blue, why is the grass green, is what I see as red what you see as red or is it blue?
Then when someone answers you, and you do not understand don't argue ask another question and another and another till you can find something you understand and build off of that. Just as a child would.

Because being like a toddler means to come with no understanding not simple truths.

in part yes, but what you fail to see is if you come as a blank slate before God He will personally teach you what He wants you to know. No one taught me. The same Holy Spirit that inspired the bible also taught me to understand it.

You yourself are quite knowledged in the Bible and Scripture so you also negate yourself as you also use vast amounts of scriptural refrences to back up a point when infact you should take it as Is. Like this. The Unforgivable Sin is talking evil against the Holy Spirit. But you yourself are bending that!

if you look at the text sourounding this sin, you will note that the Pharisees did not do that. They did not even know who or what the Holy Spirit was, let alone they were not able to call Him by title or name. So that means simply pairing the title or name of the Holy Spirit is not the blaspheme you think it to be. Otherwise if it were then What was Jesus on about? They said He was doing the devil's work, they said nothing about the HS.
So why was this considered blaspheme of the HS if they did not even mention the HS? Because the works Jesus was doing was through the power of the HS as per what He Himself said in the passage in question.
As you pointed out the HS does not work through man as He worked through Christ and the Apstoles anymore. So now one must ask what are the works of the HS, or how does the HS work today? It is through salvation, and the fruit/gifts we have been promised in the bible. To live a life dening the works of the Holy Spirit is the same as what Christ identified in what the Pharisees did.

My Reply: So what was the point in Jesus comming to earth if God ultimately wants us saved. It seamed that there is still more people going to hell than heaven so it looked like him loosing his 'Second' son resulted in very little positive change. Or was this because God is an evil tyrant that he wants to send us to hell so he sent his son so he had an excuse to torture those who didnt believe?!

again you, nor I can judge who is going to heaven and who is not beyond our own selves. And even then Just because we call ourselves 'Christian' does not make us one, and transversely just because a brother or sister worships under another religion does not mean he or she is not a part of the body of Christ. Fore in the end it is completely upto Christ to decide who is and is not going to be saved. We have only been charged with being responsible to what God has given us.

My Reply: I asked God the other day to heal all those with Cancer / Feed the Hungry I told him its my last straw for believing in him and what happened - Nothing. So was I not in the right place with my heart because I am sure among the millions of other people praying for the same people would have resulted in some movement!

why would God do something we have been slated to do?

The reason we suffer is so others can give of themselves to relieve said suffering. These 'works' are apart of the reason we are here.

My Reply: Yes but that same person does not want to serve knowing that the same God would send their own loved ones to Hell!

then know you don't have to. No one does. That is what this life is for, so you can figure that out for yourself.

Are you North Korean or something

my grandmother was from the north of Korea (before it was separated.)

- According to your logic if I dont want to follow God's army I perish! Why can I not just cease to exist or better yet just go to a limbo.

what if you had to go through Hell to cease to exist? Would you still want that?

My Reply: But again this proves that Jesus cannot forgive everything and thus his death is insufficient for sins!

not can't, won't. Meaning his death is still quite sufficient to anyone and everyone who will accept what has been offered.

My Reply: Is it not possible that the Holy Spirit (Spirit of God) was not given to jesus what so-ever. Look at it this way - I always had a problem believing Jesus was God even when I was a Christian, Could it not be said that my Holy Spirit guarded me against false teachings. As a Christian I always believed God Almighty is the only God!.

... And what if The word God was a title and not the deity's personal name as you are using the term?

That makes everything you said still hold true, and yet allows for God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit be one God.

Just like there is only one government that presides over the United States, even though there are three seperate branches of government..

My Reply: But you are basing it upon your Religion being correct. Lets just say that we have Abrahamic Religons e.g. the ones that believe in the Same Ultimate God. Well 2/3 say that worshiping Jesus is wrong! So the likelyness of Christianity being right against the backdrop of Abrhamic Religions is unlikely. Heck there is a reason why the Jews didnt believe in Jesus.

what are you talking about?!?! All the Jews who believed in Jesus were forced to take the name Christian. They were "excommunicated" as it were from Judaism. Then Rome almost wiped out Judaism completely in 70 ad they killed ALL of the Saducees(Jewish leadership) leaving only a hand full of Pharisees. (The corrupt teachers who Jesus railed against so harshly in His time here.) All Jews today are direct descendants of the remnant of the Jews left after the destruction of the temple.

My Reply: I had prayed to God like all other Ex-Christians we seeked God.

....and how do you know that your current belief is not apart of the answer to your prayer?

From what I read your belief was based on the christian religion, and not the bible or Christ. As a former Christian are you familiar with the parable of the foolish and wise builder? The foolish man builds his HOUSE/belief/faith upon the Sand/religion. The wise man builds his House/relationship with God on the Rock/the God of the Bible/Jesus so when the rains came the foolish man's house fell/lost your faith. And the wise man house stood firm. It is a hell of a lot harder to build you house on rock, but in the end it holds up to what ever storms life may provide.

Now if you ask God to prove Himself or show Himself then He would have to get you to tear down your house built on sand, so you can start to build a proper faith built on the God of the bible, rather than what you currently have. This means He would have to start out by showing you that what you believe is not real. The only problem with that is that a proud heart will make the leap and say God is not real, rather than my understanding of God was in error. Again this is why we need to approach God as Children rather than know it Alls.

Please do not think Drich that I just decided not to believe, It was a gradual process with no answers.

and if God gave you answers under your current belief system? It would reinforce what you thought you knew. What if Gods plan was to take that you understood and replace it with the Truth?

I hear Christians say God will never Give us more than we can handle.

don't confuse "God will not give us more than we can Handel"
With God will never allow us to not be uncomfortable. Or even overwhelmed.

Again if you want to find God and you have built your house on the sand then when the rains come you house will fall. Which mean you have an oppertunity to rebuild on the rock. Why? Because there are many storms to endure from where you are to where you need to be.

So please explain why I fell away when he gave me more than I could handle.

Appearently you do not know your own limits. For even though you have left your old faith (which does not seem like a bad thing right now) you are still asking and seeking after God.

I worried about that Sin named above so much so I lost sleep / felt hopeless / sad and to be honest I stayed that way for 8 months of this year every day.

... And if you were completely lost you would not have cared.

I then told God one last time - I need a Miracle otherwise we are finished and he never gave the miracle.

how do you know what He has or has not done? As we discussed above you don't even seem to understand the simple nature of a mirical, so how would you know one, if you don't even know what one is, or how they are performed? Again Just so we are clear God interceding on your behalf to help you over come an obstical, is what a mirical is. How He does it and your understanding of what God has done is not even apart of the equation.

As far as I am concerned I gave God one last chance - Just so I knew the pain I was feeling was worth it and I got no response. So either God left me or God Ignored me either way both responses have turned me against him.!

what ever you decide know that my efforts only help you make the decision you were wanting to make. Again helping you facilitate this decision was the goal, not the actual outcome.

My Reply: God allows evil - So God wants us humans to fall from grace on purpose?

what do you mean fall from grace?

My Reply: All have sinned and fall short of the Glory of God. Remember that verse - God did create man to sin otherwise Adam and Eve would not have ate the tree. Adam and Eve did not choose to sin! - If they did know nothing of Good and Evil how can said people sin!

define sin and define evil. I think your confusion is based here.

My Reply: He did not provide a way - You said that Miracles Exist / Well surely God would know what it would take Miracle wise to convert every unbeliever on this planet so why does he not give everyone a personal custom revelation then let us reject it. I am not talking about ooh hey look I got a quarter from a friend today Im talking about 'Hey look I'm living in a Mansion'

what?

Whats your come back.

I'm about 20 clicks from the mouse house about to roll in my red bandit to a choke and puke, then to a picture show, what's your 20 come back?

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When I approach a question I answer by first laying down a foundation usually based on the scriptural text the principle is founded or some sort of definition supported by referemce material, or something based on some sort of verifiable, well documented source. When you all tend to disagree, I generally get a "nut-uh" based on a feeling or the general sense that you simply know better. When to me I see the only legitimate way to 'disagree' with a conclusion based on some sort of reference material is to provide a stronger reference or to show the the current reference material is being used in error. This rarely with only one or two people ever happens.

I get a general dismissal based on feeling. You guys claim you want 'proof', but when it it provided you default to faith. Bottom line is the majority simply do not Want to believe in anything they do not already acknowledge.

If you read the posts we write to you, and all you get is "nuh-uh," then your reading comprehension is utterly terrible. I'm sorry, that's just the way it is; I've seen lengthy, intelligent posts that must have taken quite a bit of time to write, ignored by you in favor of repeating your A/S/K nonsense, despite the best efforts of many of us to disabuse you of this. I've seen brief, snarky yet sincere posts become the subject of irritable rants about your faith, and more commonly unverifiable assertions in place of facts.

The best you could say is that you get back what you give out, Drich.

You know your right, I've never taken the time to write an hour or two hour post, and get back a one or two line "Minnie" reply. Nor have I ever spent weeks trying to help someone out even if they are on the "war path" and nothing I say registers.. Just to read after weeks of effort that I am a liar over and over and over and over Andover again...

[Waratah]

Too bad that the biblical formula for the 'proof of god' (the holy spirit) fails.

(My bolding) Why do you continue to avoid my questions from HERE?

Please respond to this post HERE so this thread does not get derailed and so this is not the 4th thread our discussion is spread over.

Apart of answering questions is admitting that not everyone will get a satisfactory answer at least from their pov. You got an answer whether like what I had to say or not.

I asked you not to answer here so our discussion is not spread over 4 threads. Could you please reply to this post here as you clearly stated that you would by saying

I am more than happy to continue one subject at a time flaming Poe or not.

Or is the above a lie?

If you read the posts we write to you, and all you get is "nuh-uh," then your reading comprehension is utterly terrible. I'm sorry, that's just the way it is; I've seen lengthy, intelligent posts that must have taken quite a bit of time to write, ignored by you in favor of repeating your A/S/K nonsense, despite the best efforts of many of us to disabuse you of this. I've seen brief, snarky yet sincere posts become the subject of irritable rants about your faith, and more commonly unverifiable assertions in place of facts.

The best you could say is that you get back what you give out, Drich.

You know your right, I've never taken the time to write an hour or two hour post, and get back a one or two line "Minnie" reply. Nor have I ever spent weeks trying to help someone out even if they are on the "war path" and nothing I say registers.. Just to read after weeks of effort that I am a liar over and over and over and over Andover again...

(My Bolding)I could be wrong but is the bolded part in relation to our discussion which you seem to want to spread over 4 threads?

Tip: Stop lying and I will stop calling you a liar.

Example:

I have conceded the scriptures identify him as a friend.

The above is a lie. Prove otherwise if you can and I will retract the last sentence.

[Drich]

Apart of answering questions is admitting that not everyone will get a satisfactory answer at least from their pov. You got an answer whether like what I had to say or not.

I asked you not to answer here so our discussion is not spread over 4 threads. Could you please reply to this post here as you clearly stated that you would by saying

I am more than happy to continue one subject at a time flaming Poe or not.

Or is the above a lie?

You know your right, I've never taken the time to write an hour or two hour post, and get back a one or two line "Minnie" reply. Nor have I ever spent weeks trying to help someone out even if they are on the "war path" and nothing I say registers.. Just to read after weeks of effort that I am a liar over and over and over and over Andover again...

(My Bolding)I could be wrong but is the bolded part in relation to our discussion which you seem to want to spread over 4 threads?

Tip: Stop lying and I will stop calling you a liar.

Example:

I have conceded the scriptures identify him as a friend.

The above is a lie. Prove otherwise if you can and I will retract the last sentence.

I hate to use the word stupid but your ignorance is well beyond being un informed. We are well into stupidity at this point. My "I have conceded" post you quoted IS In Of Itself, An Example of a concession!! Or do you not know what the word conceded or concession means?

[The Reality Salesman01]

Kudos for the amusing thread title.

While I share the sentiment, I prefer the term-"Nut Sacks"

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It seems to roll off the tongue better...