"Cut and paste" Christianity

[AngelaRachnid]

WEEEEL according to the latest illustrated edition of the Genesis story by R. Crumb (a little death bed reading) cmon where is the sympathy.

the oldest daughter says " Our father is old, and there is no man on earth to come to bed with us (note no mention of marriage) like the way of all the world, Come lets give our father wine to drink, and lets lie with him so that we may keep alive seed from him."

Nothing about last women alive etc, just that there was no other women around to carry on his seed, and a mixed referance to no other men around?..................maybe this was written after they drunk the wine?

The real story is probably more like the father couldn't find any sheep or goats so got his daughters pissed and shagged them as opposed to the daughters worrying about their fathers seed.

Something which is reflected today in christianity with all the child abuse

A

[Edwardo Piet]

The real story is probably more like the father couldn't find any sheep or goats so got his daughters pissed and shagged them as opposed to the daughters worrying about their fathers seed.

Something which is reflected today in christianity with all the child abuse

A

Or,

it didn't happen at all?

Perhaps?

EvF

[chatpilot]

Craveman what you are referring to in this thread is known as cherry picking the bible. Christians in my view are the most hypocritical people on the face of this earth when it comes to their bible and their beliefs. I have known many so called Christians that live together out of wedlock knowing that fornication is condemned in their bible. One trend I have noticed when I was in the ministry was that the people that jumped around the most and made a holy ruckus during service supposedly under the influence of the holy spirit tended to be the worst of the litter.

[solarwave]

I think a number of things here arn't cut, some are taken as symbolic (talking snake) and some require more than a simple understanding to understant it. Context is also important.

Alot of the OT law was kicked out because of the NT grace. According to the Christian world view the life, death and resurrection of Jesus was the most important time in history, so wouldn't it make sense if many things changed after that point.

I would ether agree with or explain all of these with not too much effort without research except for the women and slave bit.

Eilonnwy:

It's things like this that sometimes makes me think Fundamentalists are more honest of the Christian, since they take their Bible for what it is and offer no excuses or exclusions.

Is a simple understand more honest or just simple? The world is complex so why do you say christians are dishonest when they have a complex theology, doesn't that reflect the world better?

[Oldandeasilyconfused]

A lot of the OT law was kicked out because of the NT grace.

'A lot'?. What about 'most'?

Even though Jesus admonished them to keep the law,the hard bits were abandoned in less than a 100 years.. Christians kept TEN of the SIX HUNDRED AND THIRTEEN commandments of Mosaic law. (mitzvot)
There were odd exceptions,cherry picked for convenience.It still happens today with some of the more rabid fundamentalists.

If it was about grace, it would have been so from the very beginning, but it was not. It was purely pragmatic.. For fully two generations to be a follower of teachings of Jesus,you HAD to be a Jew or convert first to Judaism. Saul changed the rules [and invented most of what became Christianity] to allow gentiles to join.Had this not happened,Christianity would have remained as it begun;a minor Jewish sect.

The 613 Mitzvot (Hebrew: תרי"ג מצוות‎: Taryag Mitzvot, "613 commandments") are statements and principles of law and ethics contained in the Torah or Five Books of Moses. These principles of Biblical law are sometimes called commandments (mitzvot) or collectively as the "Law of Moses" (Torat Moshe, תורת משה), "Mosaic Law", or simply "the Law" (though these terms are ambiguous and also applied to the Torah itself).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/613_Mitzvot

[Minimalist]

WEEEEL according to the latest illustrated edition of the Genesis story by R. Crumb (a little death bed reading) cmon where is the sympathy.

the oldest daughter says " Our father is old, and there is no man on earth to come to bed with us (note no mention of marriage) like the way of all the world, Come lets give our father wine to drink, and lets lie with him so that we may keep alive seed from him."

Nothing about last women alive etc, just that there was no other women around to carry on his seed, and a mixed referance to no other men around?..................maybe this was written after they drunk the wine?

The real story is probably more like the father couldn't find any sheep or goats so got his daughters pissed and shagged them as opposed to the daughters worrying about their fathers seed.

Something which is reflected today in christianity with all the child abuse

A

In The Bible Unearthed, Professor Israel Finkelstein takes some time to put this silly story into a 7th century BC context. Judah was a trade rival with fellow Assyrian vassal states Ammon and Moab. Lot's daughters get him drunk, have incest with their father and give birth to the founding figures of Ammon and Moab. As Finkelstein notes, no 7th century Judahite could have heard the story and not failed to suppress a smile at the ignominious beginnings of their rivals.

It is, in short, a 7th century BC propaganda story which has lost all relevance in modern times as none of the states of Judah, Moab or Ammon remain in existence.

Yet, stupid ass xtians will run around believing in such abject nonsense!

[fr0d0]

1: Jesus saying: Sell all your worldly goods, give to the poor and follow me (keep)
2: Gay people should be killed (it never says that)
3: Adulterers will go to hell (they do)
4: Give 10% of your money to the church (All churches I know practice this minimum)
5: People working on the Sabbath should be put to death (superceded law - bollocks)
6: Stone to death stubborn and rebellious children (ditto)
7: Women should keep quiet in the church (ditto)
8: Women should not wear jewellery or adorn themselves (ditto)
9: A woman must obey her husband at all times (keep, ditto for husbands duties)
10: The bits where God promoting slavery and even beating them (bollocks)
11: Christians will be able to drink poison, handle snakes and heal people (keep)
12: Ask for anything and you will receive (keep)
13: The men of Sodom wanting to butt-rape the angels in Lot’s house(keep)
14: Lot’s daughters getting him drunk and sleeping with their dad (keep)
14: Talking snake (keep you idiot ), burning bush (keep), Parting Red Sea (keep), feeding 5000 (keep)

[solarwave]

A lot of the OT law was kicked out because of the NT grace.

'A lot'?. What about 'most'?

Even though Jesus admonished them to keep the law,the hard bits were abandoned in less than a 100 years.. Christians kept TEN of the SIX HUNDRED AND THIRTEEN commandments of Mosaic law. (mitzvot)
There were odd exceptions,cherry picked for convenience.It still happens today with some of the more rabid fundamentalists.

If it was about grace, it would have been so from the very beginning, but it was not. It was purely pragmatic.. For fully two generations to be a follower of teachings of Jesus,you HAD to be a Jew or convert first to Judaism. Saul changed the rules [and invented most of what became Christianity] to allow gentiles to join.Had this not happened,Christianity would have remained as it begun;a minor Jewish sect.

Something I also forgot to say is that in the OT law there was 'civil law', 'ritual law' and 'ethical law'. it is generally only the ethical law that is kept.

The book of Romans explains the point of the Law before Christ. It was there before to show sin for what is was and to show that we fall below the high standard of God to show that we need God. The fact is that Saul did change it though.

[Minimalist]

it is generally only the ethical law that is kept.

And your evidence for that is....what?

[Tiberius]

I'm gonna give fr0d0 a deadly poisonous snake to handle. Then we'll see if he's cocky enough to think he can survive...