Yahweh, the Devil, and Job

[Faith No More]

The moral being, God bitch-slaps who deems bitch-slappable, because ultimately the real stuff comes after this. Don't pretend to even come close to knowing or understanding His power.

Except the only reason God deems Job "bitch-slappable" is because he wants to prove a point to Satan. It just shows that humans are simply pawns in God's narcissistic game of one-upping Satan, not sovereign beings bestowed with inalienable rights.

[catfish]

Holy shit dude, it's not my Bible, you seriously can't be that dense, can you?

Do you believe an ancient Israeli carpenter posing as his own son came back from the dead to save mankind from a sinful nature he created himself?

Than guess what ... IT'S YOUR FUCKING BIBLE

lol, you really don't pay attention. Shame really...

[Drich]

The Book of Job reveals an extremely bizarre relationship between god and the devil that only our filthy apologists can shrug off, but I'll point out the absurdities anyway and we can all enjoy the ridiculous gymnastics they do.


The devil was once Lucifer who was admittedly kicked out of Heaven long before Job existed. Why is god in council with the Devil?

Satan is not a god himself, it is not God's equal. He is a member of creation and there fore a subject of God. A relectuant servant if you will. Why should God be seperated from those who serve Him?

Why does god meet with his arch enemy?

Satan represents Choice, not an equally apposing force to God. God allows us choice therefore satan serves God be offering the choice God allows us to have.

and for that matter, WHERE does he meet with him?

Starbucks. Or anywhere else He wants.

If god is all-powerful, does the Devil not know this???? Why would the devil challenge an all-powerful being?

why do you?

Seems like a sure-fire way to lose a bet.

indeed.

Why would god entertain such a bet? Isn't god all-knowing? Wouldn't he know the outcome?
And since he did know that outcome does that not make him so much more sadistic - willing to see one of his own dear creations tortured just to prove some idiotic point?

job's suffering went well past job. Thousands of years later and we are still talking about it. I believe this exchange gives us critical information to the nature of God that would be counter intuitive to how humans wish to see and want to worship a god built for a pedistle. Just look at your questions and comments so far. They all center around this predominantly catholic idea of who and what God is. When the book of Job tells us otherwise. Which would not have been possible without these events.

Did god love Job?

yes with out question or doubt.

Why would someone who loved you kill everyone you love?

nothing job had belonged to job. Job like the rest of us are stewards. Everything we have belongs to God and we need to be ready to give whatever we are looking after back when he asks for it. God in the book of Job asked for everything back all at once, simply because it was His right to do so.

When Job was shown to be faithful he was given ten times what he originally had.

Did god send Job's wife to hell even though she was just part of a twisted game to prove something to his arch enemy?

the bible does not say.(from what I remember.)

If the devil convinced god to allow him to torture Job by making the claim that Job didn't truly love god than doesn't that mean that even god wasn't sure if Job loved him??

unlike you or I God motives have been shown to not be concerned with proving Himself in the moment. Again the events of the book of Job wasn't for the benefit of the major Characters in the book, but for everyone else who came after and read what had happened.

It goes on and on, but my point is, that the story of Job is not one that should inspire. It should terrify the shit out of any sheep. Not only do you have to protect yourself from the devil, but you better damn well watch your back when your god's got you covered.

the only one who should be afraid is the lost brother who aligns himself with God as away to obtain stuff. Because if stuff is the goal then one should fear because God has shown He can and will take said stuff away.

If God is your ultimate Goal then "whether The Lord gives or takes away, one can say Blessed be the name of God."

(Also, before a theist goes and uses the bull shit "god gave it all back and then some" argument, you can't get back the dead, and everyone knows there is no replacing a dead child.)

how do you know?

[T.J.]

From what I understand, the gist of the story is that bad things happen to good people and that faith isn't something to be set aside the moment it becomes an inconvenience, if you're truly serious about your faith. Though I could be confusing it with the story of Abraham where God demanded he kill his son to prove his devotion.

This was also the story where I learned some rather... interesting beliefs some Christians hold where it comes to the devil and his role in things. Like a lot of people growing up, I assumed the devil was a red guy with horns, wings, a tail and a pitchfork that burned people in hell with his minions. Then I read this story and started wondering what the devil is doing before God and his angels.

That's when the pastor of the church I was going to at the time told me that Satan actually doesn't run hell. He wanders between earth and a specific part of heaven that God allows him into away from the spirits that dwell there (I'm paraphrasing big time here) and is actually as afraid of hell as anyone else. The devil is on a leash, basically. Naturally, I asked who runs hell in that case. Some probably won't be surprised of his answer.

God.

That's right, I was told by my pastor that hell and the people who are there for all eternity are actually being punished by God personally and he didn't seem to see the problem with that.

[catfish]

From what I understand, the gist of the story is that bad things happen to good people and that faith isn't something to be set aside the moment it becomes an inconvenience, if you're truly serious about your faith. Though I could be confusing it with the story of Abraham where God demanded he kill his son to prove his devotion.

This was also the story where I learned some rather... interesting beliefs some Christians hold where it comes to the devil and his role in things. Like a lot of people growing up, I assumed the devil was a red guy with horns, wings, a tail and a pitchfork that burned people in hell with his minions. Then I read this story and started wondering what the devil is doing before God and his angels.

That's when the pastor of the church I was going to at the time told me that Satan actually doesn't run hell. He wanders between earth and a specific part of heaven that God allows him into away from the spirits that dwell there (I'm paraphrasing big time here) and is actually as afraid of hell as anyone else. The devil is on a leash, basically. Naturally, I asked who runs hell in that case. Some probably won't be surprised of his answer.

God.

That's right, I was told by my pastor that hell and the people who are there for all eternity are actually being punished by God personally and he didn't seem to see the problem with that.

You should tell your pastor that "hell" is derived from Greek myths.

























Then point him to the verse in the NT where it says that people will "turn aside to myths"... That always shuts them up.

[T.J.]

I'm gonna have to remember that one. This was ages ago, though. I don't go to that church anymore, or any church anymore. I got tired of hearing about how bad Obama and Muslims were.

[catfish]

"Pascal's wager" is awesome when applied to teaching the doctrine of hell.

[Doubting Thomas]

That's right, I was told by my pastor that hell and the people who are there for all eternity are actually being punished by God personally and he didn't seem to see the problem with that.

To which I'd ask him the question that I never get an answer to from Christians: Why would I ever want to worship a god that threatens me with eternal torture if I don't worship it?

[catfish]

That's right, I was told by my pastor that hell and the people who are there for all eternity are actually being punished by God personally and he didn't seem to see the problem with that.

To which I'd ask him the question that I never get an answer to from Christians: Why would I ever want to worship a god that threatens me with eternal torture if I don't worship it?

In the Bible, he doesn't...

"eternal" is really just an eon and besides that, hell isn't real, it's a Greek myth.

[T.J.]

The Greek myth referred to it as the Underworld, though, and it wasn't exclusive to just pain and suffering. Hell is a bit more exclusive in that regards and it's talked about in the bible a lot, albeit vaguely. Hell in a nutshell is pretty much, "It sucks and there's fire."