All the problems with Christianity

[The Reality Salesman01]

What if the "gift" has already been given to us?

Then what if the "faith" is [from the father]? Faith to do the right thing with his "gift".

Is the gift being vulnerable to believing absurd things on the basis of insufficient evidence?

What could a father possibly want his unempowered "child" to do for him? Hmmmmm...

Need him? Obey him? Respect him? Trust him? Love him?

I think you need to finish that thought. Lines like this are followed with a disclaimer (Need him, obey him, trust him, love him...or else..)

This is what makes God seem like a petty egotistic maniac...

I am the father of a 4 year old boy. Is a 4 year old unempowered? I want him to grow into a kind intelligent man. I would of course like him to love me, and respect me, but I also realize that it's not a given. I need to work to improve as a man myself so that I can be a role model deserving of his respect, love, and gratitude.

I love him, so I give him guidance in the best way I can.

Ultimately, it will be his decision to do what I say, or follow a different path.

In the end, I'm not standing preparing to press a button that will subject him to eternal torture if he doesn't follow the exact path that want for him.

[Avodaiah]

Oh man, you leave the thread for 1 night to go to sleep and you come back to all this! Well, let's do it...
4) What is the evidence for Christianity?

I take it you live out what you preach, so if you don't mind, please show me the evidence that compels you to believe in Christianity.

Certainly. There are basically 2 types of evidence as far as I can tell.
-Evidence for the existence of God
Here's my argument for God's existence:
Pretty much everyone knows how to add, at least small numbers like 2+2=4 or 5+1=6. We also know how to carry numbers, as in 9+2=11 or even 14+6=20. With these two skills, we should be able to solve any addition problem, no matter how large. But when we are faced with a larger problem, like 204+597 for example, we have to take a minute to figure it out.
Let's think about that for a second. Since we know how to add and carry numbers, we should know the answer to this problem, but we have to take a minute to solve it, as if we stop knowing how to add when we come across large numbers.
To be fair there is kind of an answer to this. Many people say that we only know how to add at all because of signals and processes in our brain, and since they happen in the physical world, where almost nothing is instantaneous, it takes time to solve larger problems. While the brain undoubtedly plays a role in this, if that was all that happened, we would basically be computers. But while a computer can change and process signals, taking 2+2 and spitting out 4 for example, it doesn't understand what it's doing. It's not dealing with knowledge or numbers; just electrical current. But humans don't just output the fact that 2+2=4 or even know it; we understand why it's true. We understand the meanings of numbers, what it means to add numbers together to get a higher one, and we put that understanding into practice to solve the problem.
Now if we have to take a minute for that understanding to come to us, as is the case with large numbers, then our understanding cannot come from us, otherwise we would have had it to begin with. It must come from someone who not only shares that understanding but has control of our minds and our understanding. Call that person what you will. I call Him God.
-Evidence for the Bible's veracity
There are a few reasons to believe that the Bible is true, but the best argument is probably fulfilled prophecy. Some of these can be explained away as hoaxes, e.g. prophecies that came true in the same book lend little credibility to the Bible. Also, some OT prophecies could have been read by NT authors and they could have said they were fulfilled when they really weren't. Except that the Gospels were likely all written within 100 years of Jesus's birth (70 years of His death), which is very little time for stories like that to be corrupted by people who wanted to give the OT false credibility.
Here are some prophecies that were fulfilled, feel free to browse: http://100prophecies.org/
And here is the NT evidence I was talking about: http://pleaseconvinceme.com/2012/the-ear...-of-jesus/
I haven't forgotten you guys, Esquilax, Cinjin, and Kichigai, but this post is already long, I'll try and be back on later.

[Mister Agenda]

Welcome, Avodaiah.

I must admit the 'argument from we can figure things out and come to understand them' is legitimately a new one to me. But I don't see how 'therefore, God' actually follows.

You understand that not all prophecies are genuine. What percentage of prophecies in the Bible have to be true for you to know that it's the word of God. What about other books that contain prophecies that have come true?

[pineapplebunnybounce]

Oh man, you leave the thread for 1 night to go to sleep and you come back to all this! Well, let's do it...
4) What is the evidence for Christianity?

I take it you live out what you preach, so if you don't mind, please show me the evidence that compels you to believe in Christianity.

Certainly. There are basically 2 types of evidence as far as I can tell.
-Evidence for the existence of God
Here's my argument for God's existence:
Pretty much everyone knows how to add, at least small numbers like 2+2=4 or 5+1=6. We also know how to carry numbers, as in 9+2=11 or even 14+6=20. With these two skills, we should be able to solve any addition problem, no matter how large. But when we are faced with a larger problem, like 204+597 for example, we have to take a minute to figure it out.
Let's think about that for a second. Since we know how to add and carry numbers, we should know the answer to this problem, but we have to take a minute to solve it, as if we stop knowing how to add when we come across large numbers.
To be fair there is kind of an answer to this. Many people say that we only know how to add at all because of signals and processes in our brain, and since they happen in the physical world, where almost nothing is instantaneous, it takes time to solve larger problems. While the brain undoubtedly plays a role in this, if that was all that happened, we would basically be computers. But while a computer can change and process signals, taking 2+2 and spitting out 4 for example, it doesn't understand what it's doing. It's not dealing with knowledge or numbers; just electrical current. But humans don't just output the fact that 2+2=4 or even know it; we understand why it's true. We understand the meanings of numbers, what it means to add numbers together to get a higher one, and we put that understanding into practice to solve the problem.
Now if we have to take a minute for that understanding to come to us, as is the case with large numbers, then our understanding cannot come from us, otherwise we would have had it to begin with. It must come from someone who not only shares that understanding but has control of our minds and our understanding. Call that person what you will. I call Him God.
-Evidence for the Bible's veracity
There are a few reasons to believe that the Bible is true, but the best argument is probably fulfilled prophecy. Some of these can be explained away as hoaxes, e.g. prophecies that came true in the same book lend little credibility to the Bible. Also, some OT prophecies could have been read by NT authors and they could have said they were fulfilled when they really weren't. Except that the Gospels were likely all written within 100 years of Jesus's birth (70 years of His death), which is very little time for stories like that to be corrupted by people who wanted to give the OT false credibility.
Here are some prophecies that were fulfilled, feel free to browse: http://100prophecies.org/
And here is the NT evidence I was talking about: http://pleaseconvinceme.com/2012/the-ear...-of-jesus/
I haven't forgotten you guys, Esquilax, Cinjin, and Kichigai, but this post is already long, I'll try and be back on later.

The math thing: you know how to add because someone taught you to do that, probably your parents or your kindergarten school teacher. If you weren't taught, you wouldn't know how to add beyond what can be demonstrably done.

God does not follow from knowing how to add.

[Bad Writer]

What?! 1+1=2 therefore ididit? But 256+125=381 means godidit? Either you're a really lousy troll or extremely delusional. You could also be both.

[Lemonvariable72]

Oh man, you leave the thread for 1 night to go to sleep and you come back to all this! Well, let's do it...
4) What is the evidence for Christianity?

I take it you live out what you preach, so if you don't mind, please show me the evidence that compels you to believe in Christianity.

Certainly. There are basically 2 types of evidence as far as I can tell.
-Evidence for the existence of God
Here's my argument for God's existence:
Pretty much everyone knows how to add, at least small numbers like 2+2=4 or 5+1=6. We also know how to carry numbers, as in 9+2=11 or even 14+6=20. With these two skills, we should be able to solve any addition problem, no matter how large. But when we are faced with a larger problem, like 204+597 for example, we have to take a minute to figure it out.
Let's think about that for a second. Since we know how to add and carry numbers, we should know the answer to this problem, but we have to take a minute to solve it, as if we stop knowing how to add when we come across large numbers.
To be fair there is kind of an answer to this. Many people say that we only know how to add at all because of signals and processes in our brain, and since they happen in the physical world, where almost nothing is instantaneous, it takes time to solve larger problems. While the brain undoubtedly plays a role in this, if that was all that happened, we would basically be computers. But while a computer can change and process signals, taking 2+2 and spitting out 4 for example, it doesn't understand what it's doing. It's not dealing with knowledge or numbers; just electrical current. But humans don't just output the fact that 2+2=4 or even know it; we understand why it's true. We understand the meanings of numbers, what it means to add numbers together to get a higher one, and we put that understanding into practice to solve the problem.
Now if we have to take a minute for that understanding to come to us, as is the case with large numbers, then our understanding cannot come from us, otherwise we would have had it to begin with. It must come from someone who not only shares that understanding but has control of our minds and our understanding. Call that person what you will. I call Him God.

How do you know it is a he? Or that it even has a gender as why would understand it?
Also which god? Is it allah? or Zororaoster? Or maybe mithra?

-Evidence for the Bible's veracity
There are a few reasons to believe that the Bible is true, but the best argument is probably fulfilled prophecy. Some of these can be explained away as hoaxes, e.g. prophecies that came true in the same book lend little credibility to the Bible. Also, some OT prophecies could have been read by NT authors and they could have said they were fulfilled when they really weren't. Except that the Gospels were likely all written within 100 years of Jesus's birth (70 years of His death), which is very little time for stories like that to be corrupted by people who wanted to give the OT false credibility.
Here are some prophecies that were fulfilled, feel free to browse: http://100prophecies.org/
And here is the NT evidence I was talking about: http://pleaseconvinceme.com/2012/the-ear...-of-jesus/
I haven't forgotten you guys, Esquilax, Cinjin, and Kichigai, but this post is already long, I'll try and be back on later.

[/quote]
Yeah was there something in isaih saying his name was to be immaneul?

Also you argument is terribly out of character for the god of bible. Surely such a god as defined by you argument would value question and learning by his creation, and would even try to teach them things like a good father would.
However in the bible he teaches us nothing moral that philosopher's had not realized already (see Hammurabi's law) and impart 0 knowledge otherwise. Imagine how much less suffering there would have been if he taught us something basic like the true cause of diesease in biblical times, instead he allowed people to think it was done by demons.

[BrianSoddingBoru4]

-No coveting.
At first glance, this may seem like an exercise in futility. It commands us to put aside all motivation to build a successful comfortable life and future for ourselves, since we cannot even desire things we don't have.
Except that's not what the commandment is.
The commandment says, Don't covet things that belong to other people. As in, if someone has something you'd like, don't resent them or hate them for it. Be happy for them, because something good happened to them.

But to covet something belonging to someone else isn't to resent or to hate them, it is to want what they have. 'Covet' means 'a desire to possess'. The commandment is an impossible one to follow, since covetousness is a feeling, not an act. Every person - every single one - has look at another's possession and thought, 'Gosh, I wish that was mine'. This commandment doesn't prohibit an action, but a thought.

-Give no thought for the morrow.
YOLO, right?
Wrong.
This teaching says, Do not WORRY about tomorrow. Don't be afraid of what will happen that you have no idea about. Don't embrace every little fear as if it were the end of the world. Believe me, I've done this before, it's miserable and nothing good comes out of it.

But Matthew 6, in context, is exhorting people to be more concerned about Heavenly rewards than with earthly necessities. It says to take NO thought for tomorrow - don't worry if your child is sick, or if the rent won't get paid or if your car won't start. We wouldn't be human if we didn't have such concerns. This has nothing to do with embracing 'every little fear', but is a mark of foresight and prudence on the part of responsible people. This instruction is - again - an impossible one for normal people to take to heart.

-Abandon your loved ones.
I'm not sure where it says this, can you please elaborate?

Matthew 10:37

Boru

[Simon Moon]

There are a few reasons to believe that the Bible is true, but the best argument is probably fulfilled prophecy. Some of these can be explained away as hoaxes, e.g. prophecies that came true in the same book lend little credibility to the Bible. Also, some OT prophecies could have been read by NT authors and they could have said they were fulfilled when they really weren't. Except that the Gospels were likely all written within 100 years of Jesus's birth (70 years of His death), which is very little time for stories like that to be corrupted by people who wanted to give the OT false credibility.
Here are some prophecies that were fulfilled, feel free to browse: http://100prophecies.org/

For something to be a prophecy, it must be very specific and only fulfillable by one, and only one event.

None of the so called prophecies fit this description.

The interesting thing is, Muslims claim the OT has prophecies that predict Mohamed's birth and acts, too. Yet Christians dismiss them for many of the same reasons we dismiss the Christian claims of prophecy.

[Doubting Thomas]

My #1 problem with Christianity, and probably my only problem with it, is the insistence that everyone else believe and follow it to the point of demonizing, shunning, or marginalizing those who don't. If not for this, and for the fact that they constantly try to push Christianity into government, I wouldn't care what Christians do. But when they think you're an evil, baby-eating Satan worshiper if they find out you don't believe what they believe, then I have a problem, because that line of thinking breeds hatred.

[Crossless2.0]

Regarding the "100 prophecies" allegedly fulfilled, I have always found this to be an unusually weak argument that Christians make. Even a cursory look at some of these OT passages reveals a number of passages taken out of context and then shoe-horned into the Jesus narratives (Matthew being the most enthusiastic offender among the Gospel authors). It is such a stretch to credit most of these claims that it is really much easier and more sensible to suppose that the survivors of the Jesus movement began combing scripture to "find" evidence for what they believed or wanted to believe to begin with.

Anyway, my advice is to take up these "prophecies" of Jesus with the Jews. Who knows? It might turn out that they know their own scriptures better than the usurping, Johnny-come-lately Gentiles who pulled the Hebrew Bible out from under their feet and dared call it the "Old Testament" -- a shameful cultural theft of the first rank. Convince the Jews, and then get back to me on the integrity of Christian interpretation.