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RE: All the problems with Christianity
November 12, 2013 at 2:00 pm
(November 12, 2013 at 12:34 pm)ronedee Wrote: What if the "gift" has already been given to us?
Then what if the "faith" is [from the father]? Faith to do the right thing with his "gift".
Is the gift being vulnerable to believing absurd things on the basis of insufficient evidence?
(November 12, 2013 at 12:34 pm)ronedee Wrote: What could a father possibly want his unempowered "child" to do for him? Hmmmmm...
Need him? Obey him? Respect him? Trust him? Love him?
I think you need to finish that thought. Lines like this are followed with a disclaimer (Need him, obey him, trust him, love him...or else..)
This is what makes God seem like a petty egotistic maniac...
I am the father of a 4 year old boy. Is a 4 year old unempowered? I want him to grow into a kind intelligent man. I would of course like him to love me, and respect me, but I also realize that it's not a given. I need to work to improve as a man myself so that I can be a role model deserving of his respect, love, and gratitude.
I love him, so I give him guidance in the best way I can.
Ultimately, it will be his decision to do what I say, or follow a different path.
In the end, I'm not standing preparing to press a button that will subject him to eternal torture if he doesn't follow the exact path that want for him.
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RE: All the problems with Christianity
November 12, 2013 at 2:03 pm
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RE: All the problems with Christianity
November 12, 2013 at 2:11 pm
Welcome, Avodaiah.
I must admit the 'argument from we can figure things out and come to understand them' is legitimately a new one to me. But I don't see how 'therefore, God' actually follows.
You understand that not all prophecies are genuine. What percentage of prophecies in the Bible have to be true for you to know that it's the word of God. What about other books that contain prophecies that have come true?
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RE: All the problems with Christianity
November 12, 2013 at 2:20 pm
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RE: All the problems with Christianity
November 12, 2013 at 2:31 pm
What?! 1+1=2 therefore ididit? But 256+125=381 means godidit? Either you're a really lousy troll or extremely delusional. You could also be both.
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RE: All the problems with Christianity
November 12, 2013 at 2:58 pm
To-morrow, and to-morrow, and to-morrow,
Creeps in this petty pace from day to day,
To the last syllable of recorded time;
And all our yesterdays have lighted fools
The way to dusty death. Out, out, brief candle!
Life's but a walking shadow, a poor player,
That struts and frets his hour upon the stage,
And then is heard no more. It is a tale
Told by an idiot, full of sound and fury,
Signifying nothing.
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RE: All the problems with Christianity
November 12, 2013 at 3:55 pm
Quote:-No coveting.
At first glance, this may seem like an exercise in futility. It commands us to put aside all motivation to build a successful comfortable life and future for ourselves, since we cannot even desire things we don't have.
Except that's not what the commandment is.
The commandment says, Don't covet things that belong to other people. As in, if someone has something you'd like, don't resent them or hate them for it. Be happy for them, because something good happened to them.
But to covet something belonging to someone else isn't to resent or to hate them, it is to want what they have. 'Covet' means 'a desire to possess'. The commandment is an impossible one to follow, since covetousness is a feeling, not an act. Every person - every single one - has look at another's possession and thought, 'Gosh, I wish that was mine'. This commandment doesn't prohibit an action, but a thought.
Quote: -Give no thought for the morrow.
YOLO, right?
Wrong.
This teaching says, Do not WORRY about tomorrow. Don't be afraid of what will happen that you have no idea about. Don't embrace every little fear as if it were the end of the world. Believe me, I've done this before, it's miserable and nothing good comes out of it.
But Matthew 6, in context, is exhorting people to be more concerned about Heavenly rewards than with earthly necessities. It says to take NO thought for tomorrow - don't worry if your child is sick, or if the rent won't get paid or if your car won't start. We wouldn't be human if we didn't have such concerns. This has nothing to do with embracing 'every little fear', but is a mark of foresight and prudence on the part of responsible people. This instruction is - again - an impossible one for normal people to take to heart.
Quote:-Abandon your loved ones.
I'm not sure where it says this, can you please elaborate?
Matthew 10:37
Boru
‘I can’t be having with this.’ - Esmeralda Weatherwax
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RE: All the problems with Christianity
November 12, 2013 at 4:13 pm
(This post was last modified: November 12, 2013 at 4:14 pm by Simon Moon.)
You'd believe if you just opened your heart" is a terrible argument for religion. It's basically saying, "If you bias yourself enough, you can convince yourself that this is true." If religion were true, people wouldn't need faith to believe it -- it would be supported by good evidence.
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RE: All the problems with Christianity
November 12, 2013 at 4:31 pm
My #1 problem with Christianity, and probably my only problem with it, is the insistence that everyone else believe and follow it to the point of demonizing, shunning, or marginalizing those who don't. If not for this, and for the fact that they constantly try to push Christianity into government, I wouldn't care what Christians do. But when they think you're an evil, baby-eating Satan worshiper if they find out you don't believe what they believe, then I have a problem, because that line of thinking breeds hatred.
Christian apologetics is the art of rolling a dog turd in sugar and selling it as a donut.
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RE: All the problems with Christianity
November 12, 2013 at 4:41 pm
Regarding the "100 prophecies" allegedly fulfilled, I have always found this to be an unusually weak argument that Christians make. Even a cursory look at some of these OT passages reveals a number of passages taken out of context and then shoe-horned into the Jesus narratives (Matthew being the most enthusiastic offender among the Gospel authors). It is such a stretch to credit most of these claims that it is really much easier and more sensible to suppose that the survivors of the Jesus movement began combing scripture to "find" evidence for what they believed or wanted to believe to begin with.
Anyway, my advice is to take up these "prophecies" of Jesus with the Jews. Who knows? It might turn out that they know their own scriptures better than the usurping, Johnny-come-lately Gentiles who pulled the Hebrew Bible out from under their feet and dared call it the "Old Testament" -- a shameful cultural theft of the first rank. Convince the Jews, and then get back to me on the integrity of Christian interpretation.
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