Ok.... Explain this one?

[ronedee]

Would I expect you to agree with me?

No evidence of God is correct in your mind.

IF indeed God revealed Himself to you...would you drop to your knees and worship Him?

hmmmmm (foot taping, hand on chin) ... I'll guess NO!

You went off on a tangent there, I'm not sure if you understood my question. Do you believe that god always answers the prayers of those who seek his protection in the face of natural disasters?

I don't know! I've NEVER had a person who prayed, come to me and say they weren't answered in some way.

Was it the exact results they wanted? No, not in every case. But, in my experience of "life & death" cases there have been miracles not explained, except that there were prayers involved.

Does prayer help those that pray... and don't really trust God? that's another good question. I don't know. I have only my own experiences.

Again, most extreme cases were answered in prayer. I can't think of one where it didn't help. Not one.

---

Let the litany of bs flow forth...

That you are both idiotic and annoying is no bullshit. You should definity definitely study those concepts of Ronedee is an idiot and Ronedee is annoying very closely and diffidently so they can inform your world view and profit you by making you slightly less annoying. Trust me, that will save your soul much more surely than even Jesus.

Whatever it is... it still keeps you coming back for more!

Jesus brings you here! Whether you like it or not!

And if I annoy YOU... fine! I'm liking that role in your life.

[Tonus]

I don't know! I've NEVER had a person who prayed, come to me and say they weren't answered in some way.

Was it the exact results they wanted? No, not in every case. But, in my experience of "life & death" cases there have been miracles not explained, except that there were prayers involved.

I felt the same way as you do when I was a believer. Regardless of how things turned out, we could rationalize it as a prayer being answered. But while the explanations were predictable, the results never were. So we thought we were showing people a consistency of results, when what we had was a consistency of rationalizations. Showing us a result that isn't consistent, and applying a rationalization that is, does not offer a compelling argument for divine intervention; it offers a compelling argument for "we see what we want to see."

Does prayer help those that pray... and don't really trust God? that's another good question. I don't know. I have only my own experiences.

As a believer I would have said that yes, prayers can help those who do not believe, as long as the prayer is asking something in keeping with god's will. (Acts 10 may be an example of this)

Again, most extreme cases were answered in prayer. I can't think of one where it didn't help. Not one.

Nor can we prove that the devout and virtuous people that died in natural disasters prayed to god, but I think we would also find it very unlikely that none of them ever did. When any outcome can be rationalized as an answer to prayer, then it's easy to believe that god answers prayers.

[The Valkyrie]

That's a poor perspective, IMO. If every natural disaster managed to avoid destroying the homes and temples of people who prayed, then the correlation is such that it would be an undeniable effect and could easily be tested and confirmed (and in doing so, we could not only answer the question about god's existence, but also who he happens to favor). Do you believe that this is the case?

Would I expect you to agree with me?

No evidence of God is correct in your mind.

IF indeed God revealed Himself to you...would you drop to your knees and worship Him?

hmmmmm (foot taping, hand on chin) ... I'll guess NO!

"IF indeed God revealed Himself to you...would you drop to your knees and worship Him?"

If your deity revealed its existence to me then I would start believing in it. Would I worship it? No. Because if your god is proved to be real then the events of the Old Testament are also true and NOTHING could get me to worship the monster that is the god of the OT.

[Bad Wolf]

Was it the exact results they wanted? No, not in every case. But, in my experience of "life & death" cases there have been miracles not explained, except that there were prayers involved.

If you want anyone to believe you, you are going to have to provide evidence that suggests that prayer was the cause of the miracles. Correlation does not imply causation.
Here is an example: 80 out of 100 men with long hair went on to develop cancer in later life.
Now, does that mean that long hair causes cancer? No
Its just a correlation, a coincidence

And besides that, i'm sure you have been lectured over and over again about the argument from ignorance so I won't go into detail about that.

[The Valkyrie]

What, explain that the tornado missed some houses?

Likely the people who died prayed, too.

Moving on.

"Likely"?

---

I bet you think that all those other houses were home to godless heathens who weren't wasting their fucking time praying to your non-existent god, eh Ronny?

Did you have to take lessons to become a first class dickhead like this or did it come naturally?

Fortunately, you weren't in one of those houses. I would've said a prayer for you too! Believe it or not.

---

Can I ask a side question, ronedee? I'm just curious as to whether or not you use a special lubricant on your anal sphincter.

I'm sure you are a kindasewer when it comes to those products.

---

It's almost as though the wind could not advance in the face of those spoken prayers. Amazing.





Nah, just kidding. Big difference between correlation and causation. I don't think those prayers are doing much of anything.

Just food for thought. We need some different persepectives than the usually bon a faire around here.

---

My house has never been destroyed by bushfires, has never even been burgled, and lately even survived a cloud of chemical smog drifting overhead without a scratch. I prayed to no god during that, and thus by Ronny's logic, god does not exist.

Bam.

By your logic you live on a moutain top, and never go out of the house!

---

Rondee,

Imagine they were muttering verses from the Koran instead of the Lord's prayer. Would you have attributed their safety to that? Would it even have crossed your mind?

I'm guessing not.

uh...show me ONE case like this! I'll be a believer!

---

Thank you, lord, because my friend lost one finger instead of all of them.
Thank you, lord, because my mother has tumors, yet not cancer.
Thank you, lord, because I got mugged, yet not killed.
Thank you, lord, because the wind took some houses, but missed some.

Lord, you are so perfect! You don't ever miss a thing or make mistakes!

Great prayer! Amen!

Yes, likely. We won't know for sure, of course, but statistical probabilities (and as the Christians love to remind us, 80% of the US population is Christian) is that several of them prayed.

[Cyberman]

Ronny, this is why asking the rhetorical, point-scoring question of would we worship the god that revealed its true existence is a banal non-sequitur.

Suppose it were proven beyond all possible doubt that taking arsenic, a popular recreational aphrodisiac in the nineteenth century, had definite positive results. Would you then immediately rush out and stock up on the stuff?

[downbeatplumb]

Ronny, this is why asking the rhetorical, point-scoring question of would we worship the god that revealed its true existence is a banal non-sequitur.

Suppose it were proven beyond all possible doubt that taking arsenic, a popular recreational aphrodisiac in the nineteenth century, had definite positive results. Would you then immediately rush out and stock up on the stuff?

Lets hope so.

[Cyberman]

Well, if she has the courage of the convictions she wants to project onto us, she'd have no choice. Hoist by her own pet god.

[Ryantology]

Suppose it were proven beyond all possible doubt that taking arsenic, a popular recreational aphrodisiac in the nineteenth century, had definite positive results. Would you then immediately rush out and stock up on the stuff?

Only if the Bible said so. Science is only the opinion of mankind or whatever.

[downbeatplumb]

Well, if she has the courage of the convictions she wants to project onto us, she'd have no choice. Hoist by her own pet god.

I think Ronedees a dude.