The question that makes fundies hostile

[Zazzy]

I see. Set up a situation in which gay people can't marry.

Then complain that they are adulterous.

Makes perfect sense. And fuck their kids, anyway. Their parents don't need legal status, the little weirdos.

[Optimistic Mysanthrope]

If gay people can't/don't exercise choice, (in the same way as bi-curious ppl do or celibate people do, or heterosexual male prisoners do, etc. etc.) then how come some gay people choose to try gay conversion therapy???

If being gay is a choice, why would they need to try gay conversion therapy? Why not just choose to be heterosexual?

Leaving aside the question of whether such therapy works, there are some gay people who exercise intent.
And that desire or intent shows that such people have conscious volition.

A person who has no ability to choose their sexual preference would not have the capacity to contemplate such an irrelevant thing.

Some people contemplate seeking psychiatric treatment. They have a desire/intent and therefore they have a conscious volition. Does this mean that mental illness is a choice? Of course not. Having the desire to change an aspect of yourself does not mean that you have the capacity to enact that change. I might desire to become a giant panda and go to great lengths in order to become one, but to say that the only reason I am not a giant panda is that I have chosen not to be a giant panda is patently absurd. Only a fool would think otherwise.

If you want to see gay activists go berserk with the No True Scotsman fallacy, just ask them how come a person can get married to the opposite sex, have children, and wait 20 years to finally decide they are gay?

Maybe one day you'll realise why that is a malformed question. I doubt it, but you never know

[rexbeccarox]

As a little kid, I thought I was gay... and it was miserable coming from a religious family, but I digress. Then, as I got older, I was strictly into dudes. Then, I realized in my mid-twenties I was bisexual and I was equally attracted to both sexes (although, I pretty much date only men for reasons I won't go into). I didn't "decide" any of that. It just happened. I wouldn't be surprised if my sexuality evolved further/again.

I don't see anything about No True Scotsman in any of what I just said.

[Zazzy]

As a little kid, I thought I was gay... and it was miserable coming from a religious family, but I digress. Then, as I got older, I was strictly into dudes. Then, I realized in my mid-twenties I was bisexual and I was equally attracted to both sexes (although, I pretty much date only men for reasons I won't go into). I didn't "decide" any of that. It just happened. I wouldn't be surprised if my sexuality evolved further/again.

I don't see anything about No True Scotsman in any of what I just said.

Rex... you just described me. Sexually, I like women about as much as men, but frankly, it's socially easier to be with men. Plus, I fell in love with one. But I tend to see my sexuality as a fairly fluid thing.

[Esquilax]

If gay people can't/don't exercise choice, (in the same way as bi-curious ppl do or celibate people do, or heterosexual male prisoners do, etc. etc.) then how come some gay people choose to try gay conversion therapy???

For the same reason left handed people, during the time when being left handed was considered sinister, chose to learn to write right-handed: because of pervasive, baseless religious superstition.

A person who has no ability to choose their sexual preference would not have the capacity to contemplate such an irrelevant thing.

By that reasoning, my sister shouldn't have been able to spend her teenage years wishing she was taller, because she has no ability to choose to be tall. And I can't wish my eyesight was better, because I have no choice on that issue.

The things you can affect, and the things you wish you could affect, are two different sets. Stop conflating them.

And speaking of bisexuality, I've always found it somewhat odd that homophobes bring that up in these discussions of choice; I'm bi too, but even I'm restricted by my orientation, since I can't choose to not find men attractive, nor can I increase my level of attraction to one or the other gender. I am where I am, even if that's more flexible that some.

[Bad Wolf]

If gay people can't/don't exercise choice, (in the same way as bi-curious ppl do or celibate people do, or heterosexual male prisoners do, etc. etc.) then how come some gay people choose to try gay conversion therapy???

Because of bigoted assholes like you that make their life a living hell. The persecution and stigma attached to being gay, in some places of the world, its terrible.

Leaving aside the question of whether such therapy works, there are some gay people who exercise intent.
And that desire or intent shows that such people have conscious volition.

What does that even mean? Intent? That they wan't to have sex with the same gender? Well yea, thats how it works, they are gay.

A person who has no ability to choose their sexual preference would not have the capacity to contemplate such an irrelevant thing.

So why don't you choose to be gay? Go on, give it a go! Get some perspective and understanding here.

Where's that research data about heterosexual males who experienced increased blood flow to the penis and apparent psycho-sexual arousal when exposed to homosexual pornography?

No idea if that is an actual thing or how that is relevant.


Its weird, I don't see you protesting about homosexuality in animals. Do they choose to be gay like humans do?

[rexbeccarox]

Its weird, I don't see you protesting about homosexuality in animals. Do they choose to be gay like humans do?

No, wolfie, you've got it wrong: It's not about whether one chooses to be gay; it's whether one ACTS on it. Duh!

[Jacob(smooth)]

Its weird, I don't see you protesting about homosexuality in animals. Do they choose to be gay like humans do?

No, wolfie, you've got it wrong: It's not about whether one chooses to be gay; it's whether one ACTS on it. Duh!

Actually I'm pretty sure if its about anything its about this.



"So in everything, do to others what you would have them do to you, for this sums up the Law and the Prophets"

If I was gay I would not want people being hateful or judging me. If I was a slave I'd want to be free. The "golden rule" appears in many religions and secular texts.

[WesOlsen]

If gay people can't/don't exercise choice, (in the same way as bi-curious ppl do or celibate people do, or heterosexual male prisoners do, etc. etc.) then how come some gay people choose to try gay conversion therapy???

As other people have already mentioned, because of societal pressures from traditionalists like yourselves. Gay people, especially in hardline religious communities, have it drilled in to them from early age that homosexuality is a dreadful thing and that there must be something wrong with the person. All that bedtime bollocks about hellfire etc. But yeah, basically because of bigoted wankers like you.

Where's that research data about heterosexual males who experienced increased blood flow to the penis and apparent psycho-sexual arousal when exposed to homosexual pornography? Thinking

Pffft don't try and nod to the medical literature. Science journals are rammed full of research in to sexual orientation, including genetics research which IS slowly identifying potential bandings on several chromosomes. There is also evidence which suggests that humans (both sexes) experience varying levels of sexual arousal when viewing any sex act (participants experienced increased blood flow to sexual organs when watching animals mating on wildlife footage, despite not being particularly aware of it). This shit comes from deep within mate, when you profess to know that heterosexual love is innate but homosexual love is carried out purely to spite you and your ignorant friends, you presume to know so much about so little. How could you possibly know how someone else feels inside? Besides, if you care so much about academic and scientific rigour you'll read all the journals that show the evolution of species, of which thousands demonstrate homosexual behaviour. Why do you subscribe to such complete bullshit? Why do you think less and less people take your ill-informed and irrational views seriously. Baseless bollocks mate. You ARE prejudiced.

[rexbeccarox]

No, wolfie, you've got it wrong: It's not about whether one chooses to be gay; it's whether one ACTS on it. Duh!

Actually I'm pretty sure if its about anything its about this.



"So in everything, do to others what you would have them do to you, for this sums up the Law and the Prophets"

If I was gay I would not want people being hateful or judging me. If I was a slave I'd want to be free. The "golden rule" appears in many religions and secular texts.

And that, my dear,is why you are one of the only Christ-like Christians who comes around here.